EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: franpipeman On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:01 am

Hey Vermont day
the outfire programmable relay would be a great energy saver. This would enable burning the least amount of coal to keep the thing going without wasting fuel. I am eagerly awaiting your research and development, or one day ( dont hold your breath ) I ll begin my own r&d on that control.
franpipeman
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: efm 520 stoker fitzgibbons pressure vessel
Hand Fed Coal Stove: harman, russo
Coal Size/Type: rice

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:52 pm

Franpipeman, you might beat me to it. It's skiing and sugaring season here in Vermont.

We got an expecially wet load of bulk coal delivered the other day. So I thought I would give it some time to dry out by using up some of my old 50lb reserve bags.

Wow, I forgot how much work that is!
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:49 am

Goodbye Will-Burt, hello LOGO. Cindy Ashley (our boiler) now has a brain!

Replaced the out fire timer with a Siemens LOGO 230RC programmable relay. This tiny relay has over 25 different types of built-in timers, counters, etc that can be used in thousands of combinations. It can do 8 inputs and 4 outputs. It also displays up to 10 screens of live data. The cost is around $200 with programming software and cable. To see how easy it is to program, go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRZU7ezUmAc

So far, the LOGO does the following, utilizing just 2 inputs and 3 outputs;

Out fire Control
Instead of running the stoker a few minutes every hour regardless of how many times it already ran during the hour, it now resets to 0 to start timing up again anytime the stoker comes on before the timer times out. It is currently set at 90 minutes from the last stoker run, it will come on for 90 seconds.

With the old out fire timer, the boiler would come on over 1,600 times in a season when it didn't need to. The new control should cut down coal and electric usage. It also reduces the chance of pushing the boiler temperature into the high limit unnecessarily in warm weather, reducing the chance of out fires.

Dump Zone Control
If the stoker has not run for 4 hours, a set of relay contacts close in parallel with one of our zone thermostats on the Honeywell zone valve for 30 minutes. This should reduce boiler temperature to the point that the stoker will come on.

Ash Control
If the fines lever was not pulled in the last 50 hours, it triggers the auto dialer to call my cell phone with an alert condition warning. This indicates by association that the ashes were not taken out. This will be changed to 28 hours in the colder weather.

Preventive Maintenance Alert
If the stoker hours for the season exceeds 1,500 hours, it triggers the auto dialer to call my cell phone with an alert condition warning. This will remind me to brush the burner chamber.

Displays
It currently displays;

How many hours it has been since the ashes were taken out.
How many hours it has been since the last stoker run.
How many hours total the stoker has run for the year.
How many hours the stoker ran for the prior day. This can be compared with heating degree days for boiler efficiency comparisons.

Attached are some pictures of the installation.
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vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:55 am

More pictures.
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Wiring diagram
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Fines lever microswitch
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Fines microswitch
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vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:02 am

More pictures.
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One of many display screens showing time since ashes removed
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vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:21 am

Very impressive. This is a great solution for those comfortable with wiring and controls, but in my experience the skills required for this kind of installation are the exception, not the norm.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:24 am

I agree that this is quite impressive, though I fear that my skills in electronics would fall far short of what is required to accomplish this.

Is there a means whereby to have a far less complicated Tork ot Intermatic repeat cycle timer reset itself (such as I believe they do in the event of a power outage) and begin counting time all over again each time the boiler fires on its own due to a standard heat call? That seems like it would accomplish much of what was achieved here and eliminate most (to all) of the unnecessary "hold fire" fan cycles without all of the complexity.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:40 am

I agree it looks complicated, but it really isn't. The wiring print is for the whole boiler system, not just the LOGO. The LOGO uses just 3 wires for the outfire timer.

There is a 302 page book with the LOGO that tells all the things it can do. I thought, geez, do I read this book to see how to program it or do I go to Youtube and have someone show me in 5 minutes? I choose the latter and was starting to program it within 10 minutes.

It's actually fun to program. If you can click and drag a mouse, you can program it. It is extremely intuitive. It also has simulator buttons to check your programs.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: franpipeman On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:24 pm

Congratulations vermontday. great job I challenge you to the next milestone step as you have accomplished so much a variable feed rate based in a integrated proportional logic with a acuator that that moves the rachet cover up and down incrementally based on feed rate requirement air proportional change may be a little difficult to link up but not impossible

great job you have done.

franpipeman
franpipeman
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: efm 520 stoker fitzgibbons pressure vessel
Hand Fed Coal Stove: harman, russo
Coal Size/Type: rice

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:09 pm

Unless you are trying to burn bio-fuels, I don't see the gain in making the air to coal ratio change automatic. Most EFM owners including myself only set it twice during the season. Once for the shoulder months and once for the winter.

If you were going to burn straight biofuels such as corn or pellets, perhaps a variable speed blower and a seperate servo motor drive on the coal feed auger would help.

Looking back at my posting above on the LOGO, I too would come to the same conclusion that it seemed complicated.

I don't want to scare people off from the LOGO. It is one of those things that is easier than you would expect.

Attached is the program for just the out fire timer and display. It takes 11 mouse drags to make it. Then you just double click on each component to name them and assign delay times.

For those who are truely intimidated, buy the $40 optional memory module instead of the $50 program and cable. Send the memory module to me and I can program it for you.
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vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: tsb On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:19 pm

Where did you find the relay available for "about $200.00" ?
It might take over all functions of my boiler.
tsb
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:27 pm

You can buy them on ebay or through a local Siemens electrical house. The unit itself is about $150.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:29 am

You've taken the efm stoker to a new level!
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:45 am

Attached is the out fire program section as a picture.

You wire into the input when the stoker is powered up. The program inverts this to power the on delay timer when the stoker is off. If it reaches the end of the time delay without the stoker coming on from a heat call prior, it closes the output contacts to call on the stoker through the Honeywell L7224 triple aquastat ZR terminal (the same as the Will Burt timer did).

As a note, if you want to change parameter settings for time, etc, you can also change it on the LOGO face itself using the arrow keys.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:20 am

I find this type of data excellent, especially when running 3 or 4 boilers, or hot air units at once, for testing or endurance tests. It is nice to have it available, BUT definitely not something everyone needs.
The KISS principle is the safest operational tool!!! I'm working on getting 5 AA 260's and an AHS 260 fired all at the same time......so this is a requirement as you would imagine.

For those who like or need this info, it is invaluable. Your car, truck, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher, TV, cell phones...all have some memory enabled, so if you think 'Big Brother' isn't in this loop, think again.

Having worked in places where SCADA was installed, I got used to being able to utilize this type of data. Paul at Coal-Trol has over time, made this feature for coal burning appliances an absolute joy for the owner or operator of equipment.
Heck, we all have programmable thermostats at home (however it is really unnecessary with a coal appliance...except for cooler sleeping requirements.)

As far as the re-bagging of a 'damp load of coal' GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! We've all been there. "Sucks" just doesn't properly emphasize how badly we hate it.....dirty, sloppy, messy, unnecessary......
simply because we forgot the 'Logic of the 7 P''s: (Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance). I have a visit to Vermont Day's operation on my "Things I want 'To Do'......I'll call well ahead......
......it is nice of you to share your 'trials and experiments' with the forum.....and obviously you don't spend all your time 'mucking out the stalls' over there in the Vermont hills. PS: What was syrup season like over in your neck of the woods?

$65.00 a gallon here IF you can find any. Lots of Grade B this season, no Fancy this year.......and folks think Coal is pricey? Right! :idea: :idea:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB