EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:27 pm

You are welcome to visit anytime, Whistlenut.

The syrup season wasn't as good as last year. We (my brother-law's operation, I am just his lacky), had double the taps and a vacuum system that together should have tripled last years 120 gal output, but we ended the season at 190 gal. As far as the $65/gal price, the real cost to make syrup is probably much higher than that, when you count diesal, gas, wood, tubing, taps, containers, pain medication, windshield wiper fluid because you parked too close to the sugar house, etc, etc.

As to the wet coal, after the bulk truck chutes it into the bulk bags, I just leave the bag tops open to dry it out. To give it a few days to dry, I used some coal we have had sitting in 50 lb bags from when we used to use feed out of a barrel.

Installing the LOGO violated my two favorite engineering principles. One is the KISS principal you mentioned and the other is the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" principal. My EFM and daughter were doing fine without the added monitering and controls. I just can't separate my imagination of ideas with going and doing it.

It would be nice if EFM made their boilers with a similar device in it, as the cost would almost be the same as the Will-Burt timer.

For anyone else out there that can't control their urge to tinker, http://www.plccenter.com/en-US/Buy/SIEM ... 21FB000BA5 has used ones for $80.00. Mine is a Siemens LOGO 230RC 6ED1052-1FB00-0BA4 and is 8 yrs old. The newer versions end with a 0BA5 or a 0BA6 (the latest version). Siemans keeps upgrading them.

The latest software is LOGO Soft comfort V7. For PC to LOGO programming cable, they have the 6ED1057-1AA00-0BAO for serial ports and 6ED1057-1AA01-0BAO for usb ports. They are about $50.00.

You do not need the optional memory card as the LOGO has non-volitale memory, unless you want someone else to program it and then just stick the pre-programmed card into the LOGO.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:07 am

You were up late writing a response.....thanks!!!!!! I am impressed that you have done this , and sharing it allows for a window into what goes on technically. Great info to teach the uninformed, and perhaps you and Yanche could share thoughts!

Bad year in the syrup business.....talk about things in relation to the cost of a woman in the household.....hell, they are a BARGAIN compared to that 'sweet habit' we enjoy!!!
I'm headed your way very soon......and a man formerly known as Stoker Scott is in for a surprise visit while I'm out and about!!! Thanks again for your ingenuity and willingness to share. :idea: :!:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:40 pm

Look forward to your visit and giving you the "nickel tour" (gotta pay for this stuff somehow)!

For anyone purchasing a LOGO, the manual for it is on line at
so don't waste money buying it. You really don't need it.

This is one time where it really works being a man and reading the instructions after you do the job!
Last edited by Richard S. on Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:45 pm

whistlenut wrote:I'm headed your way very soon......and a man formerly known as Stoker Scott is in for a surprise visit while I'm out and about!!! . :idea: :!:




Thanks for the warning!!!!!!!! I'll be sure to put the sheep under lock and key, and drain any half drank beer bottles ;) :lol: :lol:
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: EnergyManager On: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:03 pm



This by far is one of the most ingenious approaches I have ever seen. And I am engineer and I am very impressed. Being brought up in the coal industry and hearing coal is dirty. This remove the stigma that having coal heat is dirty.
EnergyManager
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:34 am

Thanks Energymanager. My wife is a Martha Stewart type without the stock tips. She loves how clean the coal system is and how easily it meets our heating needs.

However, I think she is getting jealous of Cindy Ashley (our boiler). I just returned from a business trip to find a note posted on the boiler (see picture below).

Whistlenut, instead of the standard nickel tour, we also offer a $64.05 tour that includes a free complimentary gallon of Vermont's finest fresh maple syrup!

For anyone interested in copying the LOGO program, attached is the cleaned up full version. I can also email the program to anyone who has the LOGO software.
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I think my wife is getting jealous!
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Downloading the program.
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Last edited by vermontday on Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: EnergyManager On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:43 pm

Check out the NEPA page Independent Coal Breakers are not the web

Live Oak Coal was the Coal Breaker my father started with my grandfather an illiterate Rusyn immigrant in the 1930s, by cutting down the trees and making coal pockets and running the whole operation with old model T engine. Later expanding in 40s and 50s. Today they would shut you down before you got started. The whole reason my grandfather started the breaker was to keep my Dad out of the deep mines. Today I would design it differently or because of lesson learned from my father, who while was not an trained engineer, left school in 11th grade. He use to do those calculations for motor, hp, scraper line design and electricity. Pretty remarkable without training. He told me this once and I always remember, " if you eliminate a piece of equipment and uses gravity do it, becuause gravity never breaks and equiment always does. As Pauly Direnzo told my uncle they named it right when they called it a "Breaker".
EnergyManager
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:46 pm

That is an interesting video on how a breaker operates. We don't always appreciate all the work that goes into coal.

It is unfortunate that so many of the smaller operations went out. It will be interesting to see what happens as oil goes higher in price. Although with all the regulations it will be difficult for anyone small to start up a breaker operation.

I remember when my father had his Gentleman Janitor coal boiler replaced with an oil boiler. It was a no-brainer then with the price of oil and the ease of use. For those of us out of the reach of natural gas, coal is now the no-brainer.

The $5,000/year we are saving using coal is going to fund our kids upcoming college costs. So I guess it is a case of "back to the future"!
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:50 pm

WOW :!: :!: :oops: I am in the "Stone Age" compared to your install :x I can only gain from your monitoring equipment to bring my install into the "Iron Age" :P You really have me thinking, yeah another project, my bride will not be impressed when "Nicoal" our stove name gets a priority over her projects. My daughter, like your bride said I had a new girlfriend, and that is her name.
2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:15 pm

2001Sierra,

It's not all high tech, as you can see from my annual cleaning tools. They include such as things as the "EFM fire out device".

Ok, so it's dragging the live coals over the pot edge with my wife's kitchen ladle!
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Cut down the hanger hook lengths last year make it easier to remove baffles.
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Welded handles to the baffles to make them easier to remove.
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It's a relatively dust free operation if you shut down with the chimney heated up!
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vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: Short Bus On: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:33 am

Instrumentation,

How about a preasure trasnducer on the pallet jack to monitor how much coal is in the bag.

How about a inlet and outlet temperature on the boiler water and a flow meter to calculate actual BTU output for your coal consumption. BTU per pound of coal information could be used to accuratly determine how frequently the heat exchanger needs to be cleaned.
Short Bus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kewanee boiler with Anchor stoker
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut / Sub-bituminous C
Other Heating: Propane wall furnace back up only

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:05 am

Both are feasible, but the cost would be about $1K to do it. I am not that curious!

Remember that the LOGO was installed as an inexpensive timer replacement. All the other things it is doing is just because it was no more cost to do them as well.

You are confusing an R&D guy with a frugal vermonter!
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:51 am

I like the handles on the hanging baffles. I have had good luck lifting the baffle off the hooks with a small prybar, but the handles are easier yet.

Is there any special reason that you manually remove the burning coal from the pot?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:26 am

I am torn between the utter simplicity of a Glenwood or the complexity of this system. I find both methods equally beautiful and intriguing even though they are complete opposites.

I really think vermontday should consider pricing out this equipment as a stand alone pre-programmed package. I bet a market for such equipment exists, especially if partnered with EFM. :idea:
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75. (sold)
Other Heating: Oil Furnace and Kerosene Heaters.

Re: EFM 520 Install with skid/bulk bags feed

PostBy: vermontday On: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:23 pm

Short bus,
We have never had a problem with running out of coal feed, but if we did, the coal would burn lower in the fire pot, triggering the high auger temperature alarm to call my cell phone.
The heating degrees day compared to auger time for the day will have to suffice for determining efficiency. I also have a thermocouple on the breech vent that would show the stack temperature getting higher.

Rob R,
My baffles were hard to remove until I cut down the ends of the hooks and put handles on. If I had it to do over, I would mount the handles just over 1/2 way up on the baffles for better balance.
I remove the live coals from the fire pot to completely shut the stove down to allow me to remove and clean the exhaust pipe once per year. It also allows me to check the air holes in the burn pot.
I like your idea of covering up the fire with ashes to do any interim firebox cleaning.

Earthwindandfire,
The EFM is still a simple system. It is really controlled by the Honeywell L7224 triple aquastat. The EFM would still run all winter fine without the monitoring controls I have on it.
However, the LOGO is a simple perfect match for the EFM to allow easier summer use and inexpensively allow the ability to monitor performance.
Last edited by vermontday on Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520