Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:05 pm

Lightning wrote:
samhill wrote:put some thought into it & ask yourself why all these places that have gold are willing to sell that gold for what (U.S. dollars).


:shock: I never looked at it that way.. :lol:
Makes pretty good sense.. not that I was interested in buying gold but more curious as to WHY they were sellin it..


Arbitrage between the price paid to the miners and the price paid to the buyers.

But for me the real test of the worth of gold has always been: Take 2 safes and sink them on a ship. One with $1,000,000 worth of US paper currency (sealed against damage from water and time), and one with todays equivalent of $1,000,000 worth of gold (call it 760 ounces). In 100 years when the wreckage of the ship is discovered, which safe will be of most concern to the discovery team (given the fact that in the past 100 years paper dollars have lost roughly 98 percent of their buying power, and consequently gold has gone from $20 per ounce to $1,300 per ounce over the same time period, and also given that it's a fair bet that the paper US Dollar will lose another 98% of its buying power over the next 100 years)?

Hint:
$1 million in paper x 2% = $20,000 in 100 years down the road buying power
$1 million in gold / 2% = $50 million in 100 years down the road buying power (which means simply that it will buy 100 years from now exactly what it will buy today)
lsayre
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:50 pm

Given the past and present QE and bail outs that have fabricated literally trillions of dollars (digital, todays equivalent of paper) out of thin air (with no corresponding growth in GDP to justify this), I can't imagine why anyone would not consider owning some levels of gold and/or silver.

Federal Reserve currency is a Ponzi scheme that depreciates the value of existing currency by diluting it with newly fabricated currency. Without GDP growth in lock step, new currency literally robs value from existing currency. We ultimately see it as "inflation", but we fail to realize that inflation is not "rising prices" (that being merely an eventual symptom of inflation), but rather that inflation itself is an expansion of the currency supply that exceeds the growth of the GDP. That is why the long term trend in a Dollars buying power is always going to be downward with FRN's. And the expansion of the currency supply has never in the past happened at rates seen these past few years, so seeing that the Dollar lost 98% of its buying power within the past 100 years of FRN's (which span the entire past history of the FRN), what horrendous level of buying power erosion might the combined paper/digital/dross_coin Dollar see within the next 100 years?
lsayre
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:23 pm

Perhaps if a few of you would take your hundreds of hundreds out of the off shore havens there would be less need to print more. :shh:
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba280
samhill
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: stovehospital On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:37 pm

I buy and sell antique stoves. I also restore many antique stoves. Just for fun one day I got out the old Glenwood catalogs from 1916 and compared the cost of a new Glenwood in 1916 and the cost of a restored one today------both in terms of gold. They are almost exactly the same. The value of the stove is unchanged but the value of the money is gone.
As for today, I think we have not started to have financial problems. the next few months will tell the story. I have shifted out of banks and gone into hard currency like silver and gold. I have purchased my fuel for next winter. Best to have it in the cellar in case of run away inflation. Best to start to think about food and whatever you might need. I hope our kids don't look back and call these "the good old days".
stovehospital
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:08 pm

So when you buy gold from these places, do they actually send a chunk of gold to you?? :lol: Pardon my lack of knowledge in this industry..
Lightning
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:12 pm

Yes!
lsayre
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:38 pm

Lightning wrote:So when you buy gold from these places, do they actually send a chunk of gold to you?? :lol: Pardon my lack of knowledge in this industry..

Me too – need some education here:
(1) What standard, widely-recognized forms is gold “packaged” in? For example, I understand the US Mint makes 24 carat gold coins in several different weights, so if you buy them you can be pretty sure you are getting what you think you are getting.
(2) Why can’t I buy directly from the US Mint rather than having to go through a dealer?
(3) When you get a chunk of gold, from wherever you bought it, is there a simple way to verify it is what it says it is, and not a gold-plated bar of copper or whatever?
(4) Do people typically take delivery of the physical gold, or do they keep an account with a dealer or other organization and rely on that organization to house the gold? Who can be trusted? How do you ship it securely?
(5) Since the price fluctuates, sometimes rapidly, how do you lock in a purchase or sale at a particular point in time?
(6) Is there a national or international exchange, similar to a stock exchange, where one can buy and sell? How high are the commission/transaction fees?
(7) How liquid is gold? If I decide this morning to sell, are there available buyers? How do I find out what the current price is? Can I trade online?
rberq
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:13 pm

lsayre
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:00 am

Something to think about: if the *censored* does hit the fan, for whatever reason, what you want to hold is not a form of currency, What you want to hold are items that basic survival depend on. These items will be as or more valueable than gold, silver etc.
Silver, gold or whatever will pass for currency, will only have a place in a post SHTF society after a few years of survival, and a need for something more portable and universal than direct barter for or with actual goods.. once transportation is reestablished and commerce over distance is restored.

Example: a month after a collapse of the electrical grid [for whatever reason] what good would holding gold or silver be? What would be worth a lot would be diesel fuel, gasoline, or coal , or heating oil.
The need for at least a year ? maybe only 6 months, would be maintaining some form of refrigeration, and pumping water.

To live you need WATER.. food?? not so much.. but no water? you start to shut down after 2-3 days.. Death soon follows.

So, yes, I'm a prepper. I have enough diesel to run my genset for a year, running it 4 hours a day.. that will pump water, chill the freezer and fridge, charge some battery packs, and run some equipment like welders, etc.

I have not only a normal well with an electric pump, I have a well with a hand pump, and I have a river on the property and water purification systems.

How about medicine?? Do you have a stockpile of normal items we take for granted? Like painkillers, stomach aids. antibacterial ointments, ability to stitch or glue [super glue] wounds and lacerations ?

Can you get fresh food? Can you hunt? if so, how many rounds of your choice of ammo do you have? I think the standard .22LongRifle round will be the standard for putting a squirrel or rabbit in the stew pot. [or domestic cat, and foo-foo dogs, real dogs will have a place as part of security for your home and family]
Do you have seeds to grow a garden, if we are lucky enough to have a decent growing season? If the SHTF in October, all bets are off till May or June the next year.

Can you survive with NO outside support?? Do you even have enough basic staple food stuffs to eat 1000 calories per day?? for 6 months? It's actually easy to have a food pantry, and it saves money, buy in large quantity when things are on sale, label the items with the date, use the m as needed oldest first.
Where will you get sugar, salt, pepper, liquor, toilet paper, cloth towels or other cloth items,??

So instead of gold or silver for the upcoming potential disasters, I hoard what I think I will need and if I have it, and someone else needs or wants it, then it has REAL value and is far better than gold or silver for barter.
Gold and Silver only have value if they can be used to buy goods or services you want or need.

Only once some form of commercee has been reestablished, will a coin or similar currency be of use. When the growing states have corn, wheat, oats. And the oil producing states have fuels, and the need to exchange the two and the ability to transport the items has been restored, then a currency will be needed again.

I'll bet that If the starving hoards start to leave the cities, and come looting in the suburbs, and beyond into the small farms,, that gold will be valueless, but a 500 round box of .223 will get you just about anything in trade.. And an operational rifle with 500 rounds for it will be just about priceless.

Just a thought..

NOW, if the SHTF never happens, but the FRN and the FED, and inflation go crazy, then all the bank accounts will be just a thought, or smoke in a stiff breeze.. gone. and all the 'wealth' in your or our bank accounts will be nothing..

So what to hoard and hold is what you would want to BUY with that gold or silver.. at least for the first year or so.

Try reading 'Lights Out' and "Patriots' or 'One Second After' and a few other post SHTF novels.. They really make you think about what it might be like.. Do you KNOW and like your neighbors? ALL your neighbors? Are you prepared to deal with them if you have a working well, and refrigeration, and they do NOT? What happens when they get REALLY desperate?

Just some thoughts

Greg L
LsFarm
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:51 am

As to silver or gold, if you don't have it directly in your possession, you don't own it. The same thing holds true for FRN's deposited in banks though. Once you deposit them, they are no longer yours. At that juncture you own only a promise that they will be politely returned to you upon your asking. Promises can be and are broken.

BTW, inflation at only a relatively mild level of 3.8% annually (on average) for 100 years will turn the purchasing power of $1,000,000 into $20,000. The Federal Reserve is officially targeting 2% annual inflation, but they measure it falsely (I.E., they seriously low-ball it) by excluding just about everything you actually need and use from their inflation measuring basket, and by applying the "science" of hedonics, along with suppressing it further via the aid of cheap Chinese (Mexican, etc...) mfg'd goods substituted for American made goods.

If your savings at the bank are earning less than 3.8% annualized interest you are guaranteed to be losing money. But my guess is that current inflation is actually in the ballpark of 6% to 8% annually. Therefore both your savings/investments and your income (annual raises) need to be in this ballpark just to break even over the long haul.

That silver and gold are currently not meeting this 6% to 8% annual rate of return either simply means that at some juncture in the future they will necessarily explode upward to catch up with real inflation (as they historically have done, this coming in spurts, often after extended lull to declining periods).
Last edited by lsayre on Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
lsayre
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: stovehospital On: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:18 am

You mention money in the bank. I have removed mine and placed it outside the system. There will be a bail in at some point and that will probably extend to IRA's of all types. Your investments will turn into some government run annuity programs which you have no control of. I know it sounds pretty radical but look at the current group running Washington. Try reading JSMINESET.com every day.
Be st to get out of the system as much as possible.
stovehospital
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:38 am

After you deposit them, the bank does not long own your FRN's either. They "invest" them and then they are also holding merely a promise (not a guarantee by a long shot) of a return.

FRN means Federal Reserve Note, and any "note" in and of itself is merely a promise (notice) of future payback with something tangible and accepted as having value. A note is therefore a charge against future value (and as such it is technically a "debt" instrument). If it has no such exchangeability into value, it is a form of fraud which gains value only at the point of a gun. This is easily accomplished (enforced) by making them the only means to pay taxes.

Promises, promises, promises.... This as opposed to owning and possessing gold or silver.

All modern currency stems from debt. Your promise to pay back (with interest) a loan form the bank gives the bank the authority to create the currency you desire and grant it to you right on the spot. This currency (for the most part) does not come out of deposits. It is new and never existed before that very moment (this being true for at least 90% of it, thanks to "fractional reserve" banking practices). The governments promise to pay back (with interest, via Treasury notes they print on paper at whim) a loan from the Federal Reserve gives the Federal Reserve the authority to fabricate what we think of as money (Dollar bills, or FRN's, also printed at whim (err, promise of payback with interest) on the spot. This being new as well (and in this case it is true for 100% of it). It all involves promises. Nothing is real about it. And it begs the question: If all currency comes from debt (loans) with the promise to pay back with interest, yet what is created in all cases is only principal, where does the money to pay the interest due on the principal come from?
Last edited by lsayre on Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:16 am

I think you gave some pretty good advice Ls, I don't believe any big SHTF event is going to happen (at least no in my lifetime) but a good reasonable assurance to have basic supplies on hand for a multitude of reasons. As I say if it makes your boat float then buy low, I also asked just why do you think these smart folks that own this gold are so willing to sell to the average Joe for $. One would think that all those revered (by some) wealthy folks that take the $ out of circulation, thereby causing the printing of more along with devaluation of what they hoard would instead buy the gold & silver.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:23 am

samhill wrote:I think you gave some pretty good advice Ls, I don't believe any big SHTF event is going to happen (at least no in my lifetime) but a good reasonable assurance to have basic supplies on hand for a multitude of reasons. As I say if it makes your boat float then buy low, I also asked just why do you think these smart folks that own this gold are so willing to sell to the average Joe for $. One would think that all those revered (by some) wealthy folks that take the $ out of circulation, thereby causing the printing of more along with devaluation of what they hoard would instead buy the gold & silver.


Sam, if we all transacted in gold and silver we would all be sitting in prison. "Legal Tender" laws and the need to transact business with taxes all being paid in FRN's assure us of as much.

It is easy to see that bad money (FRN's being one example) drives out good money. If you had a choice of paying someone with real money or fake money, and (thanks to legal tender laws) they were forced at gunpoint to accept the fake money (as well as both of you being forced to pay the taxes due in fake money), which one would you hoard, and which one would you hand over in exchange for the goods?

The answer to your question is: In order to do business and survive on the outside of a prison, you are forced to transact in "legal tender" FRN's. Force, force, force, promises, promises, promises. it was not always this way. It only became this way in 1913.

Edits to fix typos.
Last edited by lsayre on Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
lsayre
 
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Re: Beware of buying gold/silver from Lear Capitol

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:24 am

stovehospital wrote:You mention money in the bank. I have removed mine and placed it outside the system.

How did you do that? Could you explain? What is "outside the system"? In other words, do you still have money but not in a bank? Did you take your money and buy some other liquid assets? or not-liquid assets?
rberq
 
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