Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

Cast your for vote FOR/AGAINST the HC Bill

Poll ended at Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:10 pm

YES - I want that ObamaCare vill to become law
6
12%
NO- I don't want the the ObamaCare bill to become law
44
88%
 
Total votes : 50

Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:31 pm

Thanx for the link,B&B
Hambden Bob
 
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Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: grumpy On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:10 pm

There still fighting over it, I hope they keep fighting over it for 20 more years.
grumpy
 

Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:34 pm

I heard a radio commercial the other day. Obama was on and he is pushing the HCB. So his line goes something like," America needs to wake up. Your biggest expense is health care. No one should be without it. Ya da daa Ya da a daaa". How very astute of him to overlook the fact that government is my single biggest expense. I could have the best of health care if 33% or so wasn't getting taken off the top :x
Scottscoaled
 
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Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: grumpy On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:35 pm

The children are screwed..
grumpy
 

Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:38 pm

First vote, vote on the Senate bill, is ongoing right now. 8m 20s left to go.

edit: 203-183 so far. 5m 20s remaining.
edit: 3:40 remaining, 209-192.
edit: 3:00, 210-200.
edit: 2:30, 211-201.
edit: 2:00, 216-203... and the ballgame.

final vote: 219-212
219 democrat yea
34 democrat, 178 republican nay.

American transformed on a razor thin margin and a senate that would no longer pass the bill.
Last edited by pvolcko on Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
pvolcko
 

Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:46 pm

Welcome to the USSA

BTW : I've added an additional charge to all of my invoices starting tomorrow, ya might want to scrap off that Obama bumper sticker, just sayin'.
Black_And_Blue
 
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Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: grumpy On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:03 pm

:bang: :bang:
grumpy
 

Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:32 pm

Motion to recommit stupak amended version fails. Reconciliation bill passes. Pres set to sign the just passed senate health care bill on Tuesday from the sounds of things. Senate aiming to pass reconciliation bill by fri/sat this week.
pvolcko
 

Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: Paulie On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:35 pm

Done deal, now lets see how it can be made to work.
Paulie
 
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Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:52 pm

Paulie wrote:Done deal, now lets see how it can be made to work.


Make a pot of coffee for your new visitors :

 IRS agents verify if you have “acceptable” health care coverage;
 IRS has the authority to fine you up to $2,250 or 2 percent of your income (whichever is
greater) for failure to prove that you have purchased “minimum essential coverage”;
 IRS can confiscate your tax refund;
 IRS audits are likely to increase;
 IRS will need up to $10 billion to administer the new health care program this decade;
 IRS may need to hire as many as 16,500 additional auditors, agents and other employees
to investigate and collect billions in new taxes from Americans; and
 Nearly half of all these new individual mandate taxes will be paid by Americans earning
less than 300 percent of poverty ($66,150 for a family of four).
Black_And_Blue
 
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Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: cokehead On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:09 am

Paulie wrote:Done deal, now lets see how it can be made to work.
The Dems won the battle, not the war. It's not over.
cokehead
 
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Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: brckwlt On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:15 am

I am sick to my *censored* stomach ... listening to the dems and nancy pelosi act like this is a good thing for the country.

the whole time i was watching the health care debate and the vote i kept hoping for the theater scene from inglorious bastards to take place ... so we could end the war on the american people
brckwlt
 
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Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: pvolcko On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:06 am

And the IRS staffing increases budget and program auditing budget are not part of either the main bill or the reconciliation bill and thus were not in the oft-referenced CBO scores. Those costs alone will likely blow the supposed $136billion deficit savings.

Throw on the upcoming doc fix: +$250 billion or so.

Throw on 14 million illegals being given amnesty in the next 10 years as a result of the promised immigration reform legislation being discussed now, almost all of which will qualify for largely subsidized or even fully subsidized health "insurance" coverage. Since the program without illegals is considered to be roughly $200 billion a year in expenses to cover 20 million or so (the 35 million number people throw around includes the illegals), be generous and say that it only requires throwing on a third more in costs, net, $66 billion over 6 years (remember they back loaded the expenses on this bill): +$396 billion more.

With amnesty will come the ability to bring in some number of immediate family members, who will also need to be covered. Increase the costs that much more.

50% of the funding for this thing is based on new taxation, and the CBO uses static analysis in its scoring. Will people who have high cost, "Cadillac" coverage keep it when the new tax on those plans kicks in? Will insurance companies even offer it (it is taxed at the provider, not the recipient)? Not likely, at the very least the number having the plans will go down as a feedback on the new taxation. Especially if those plans are provided under a pension or union contract, where the individual is left to the whims of plan administrators, which is the case for the majority of such plans (which is why the House wanted to exclude these union plans from the tax). So not as much revenue as projected will come in. How much, don't know.

Another taxation revenue source, employers which do not offer coverage to their full time and part time employees. First off, the CBO scoring did not use today's employment rates to score it, nor a moving jobs recovery curve, but a static number based on historical norms. Lets just say they used 6.5% unemployment as their baseline. We aren't on track to hit that for at least a couple years, meaning revenues from this will be way down from score. The act of assessing the tax will also work to discourage employment. Indeed, in the aggregate it will encourage firing people, particularly part time workers. While micro businesses will not have to worry, a great many small to large businesses will feel a big pinch on this. How much lower will the revenues from this be than scored? Don't know again, but it will be lower at least in the critical 4 year period where revenues are collected before benefits start kicking in, pushing the 10 year deficit more to the red.

A third revenue source comes from taxation on investment and non-earned income. This covers everything from stock sales to inheritance to royalties to sale of a home. Again, static analysis based on some value that is not reflective of the current and near to mid term continuing investment income profile. How far off will the score be on this revenue source just in the 10 year horizon, much less 11 and beyond?

To say nothing of the state medicaid unfunded mandates in this, expected premium increases for current policy holders into the near and mid term (might get lucky and see some reduction at 10 years out if all goes to plan... if), reduction in medicare doctor availability, and all sorts of other effects...

Yes, this will get the 5% of the population that is not illegal and uninsured into health insurance. It will get another 5% that is illegal and uninsured into it too once amnesty comes around. But it is doing it damned ugly, damned expensively, and in a way that seeks expressly to lock more and more people into dependence on the system and lock the nation on a path of more and more government centered control to handle "unanticipated" problems, as opposed to a market based, freedom centered method. This is the giant mistake that medicare and social security were all over again. Both started to cover small portions of the public in need of help in an economic emergency situation, both formed strong dependency bonds that were quickly unable to be broken or even "fixed", both ballooned in cost and scope in undesired and unintended ways, both act as anchors weighing this nation's economic future down now and into the foreseeable future.

We already had three chronic diseases eating away at the vitality of this country (ss, medicare, and parties hooked on spending more than we have year after year). We've just self injected a third. And this one's a mutating virus, likely to morph into something progressively worse as time goes on as people attempt to "fix" it.
Last edited by pvolcko on Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
pvolcko
 

Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: cntbill On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:35 am

pvolcko wrote:Throw on 14 million illegals being given amnesty in the next 10 years as a result of the promised immigration reform legislation being discussed now, almost all of which will qualify for largely subsidized or even fully subsidized health "insurance" coverage.


On amnesty here is an interesting link https://www.numbersusa.com/content/
cntbill
 
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Re: Cast your vote FOR/AGAINST the HC bill

PostBy: valley trash On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:49 am

Wheres a Lee Harvey Oswald when you need one? :mad2:
valley trash
 
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