State's Rights in the 21st Century

State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:08 pm

Will the next civil war be started by health care as a state's rights issue?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100322/pl_nm/us_usa_healthcare_states
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.



In addition to the pending lawsuits, bills and resolutions have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional amendments, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.


Will a decision by the conservative leaning supreme court start it?
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:12 pm

Apparently,this ain't no where near over :help2:
mikeandgerry wrote:Will the next civil war be started by health care as a state's rights issue?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100322/pl_nm/us_usa_healthcare_states
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.



In addition to the pending lawsuits, bills and resolutions have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional amendments, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.


Will a decision by the conservative leaning supreme court start it?
freetown fred
 
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:16 pm

People complain because Ins. Co.s can`t sell across state lines because of state laws, then if something is made nationwide they complain. Why not just all states stay separate & become the Independent States of America? Bottom line is you can`t please everyone.
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:19 pm

samhill wrote:People complain because Ins. Co.s can`t sell across state lines because of state laws, then if something is made nationwide they complain. Why not just all states stay separate & become the Independent States of America? Bottom line is you can`t please everyone.


Don't they have to please the majority, sam?

Don't they have to protect the minority from property rights seizures, sam?
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:13 pm

But everybody claims to be the majority & the Gov. should protect everyones property rights regardless.
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:36 pm

Sam,as a WASP/ Native American,I damn sure can't & don't claim to be a majority
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:48 pm

Didn`t say that you made that claim Fred, I was replying to Mike about the states rights.
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:36 pm

samhill wrote:People complain because Ins. Co.s can`t sell across state lines because of state laws, then if something is made nationwide they complain. Why not just all states stay separate & become the Independent States of America? Bottom line is you can`t please everyone.


Who complained about what when it was made nationwide?

The government claims control over everything from guns to bubble gum due to the "commerce clause" except for health insurance and Major League Baseball.

Why do you think that is?
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: pvolcko On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:38 pm

Maybe someone here can explain this to me. This bill does not open up inter-state selling of policies. But, it also creates an "exchange" where people can buy a family and individual policies that the fed government allows on the exchange.

Are there effectively 50 exchanges, one for each state?

Or did they do the truly stupid, declare the federal government the one and only broker for inter-state policies and also make it the sole broker for federally subsidized insurance policies?

If the government sets the rules for what gets on the exchange, it they get to pick and choose which policies are allowed on, if the exchange is the sole provider of subsidized policies... how is that at all functionally different than a public option?

And if it is later national policy broker model, as opposed to the per state exchange model, the risk pools in the national policy pool will quickly outstrip the state policies pools, resulting in huge incentives for businesses and states to dump their policies and force people into the national pool. Which makes this whole thing one step removed from a single player plan in practice after 5-10 years.

Jesus... is this what people meant when they kept calling this a back door to government run, socialized medicine, despite not having a "public option"? Here I thought it was overwrought partisan attack language.
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: brckwlt On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:39 pm

i have no idea ... please explain about baseball ....
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:44 pm

samhill wrote: Why not just all states stay separate & become the Independent States of America? Bottom line is you can`t please everyone.


This was the intent of the founding fathers - sort of. That's why the Federal Government is granted such limited power in the Constitution. What it can do is very specific; print money, regulate interstate commerce and raise a standing army are among them. Article IV gives specific rights to the States including a "guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government..." That's why state governments are similar to the federal government in that they have the 3 branches. These "states right" are further spelled out in Amendment X - "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." The idea was to have the most power in the hands of those folks, i.e. smaller governments that are closer to the people and would truly reflect the needs and desires of the people. We have lost that aspect of our government.

We, the people have been fighting over a big centralized government or smaller more powerful state governments since before the Constitution was ratified. The point is that the Constitution does not say anything about health insurance and because of that it is a State issue. That's why MA and TN have a state single payer health care plan; the people of those states made a decision to have it. The federal government does not have the authority to force anyone to buy someone else their health insurance; the state would have that authority. Nor can the Federal Government insist that the state do it through an unfunded mandate. That's what the Democrats are trying to do and that's why quite a few states are preparing lawsuits against this bill based on the Tenth Amendment. Lisa
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:16 pm

pvolcko wrote:And if it is later national policy broker model, as opposed to the per state exchange model, the risk pools in the national policy pool will quickly outstrip the state policies pools, resulting in huge incentives for businesses and states to dump their policies and force people into the national pool. Which makes this whole thing one step removed from a single player plan in practice after 5-10 years.

Jesus... is this what people meant when they kept calling this a back door to government run, socialized medicine, despite not having a "public option"? Here I thought it was overwrought partisan attack language.


We will have a single payer government dominated system in under ten years is my belief.

Next up.....Cap and Trade (or rather, Cap, Tax and dominate business).

Be prepared.
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: spc On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:54 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:We will have a single payer government dominated system in under ten years...

That is the plan.

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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:10 pm

The state lawsuits are a red herring. Just like in the Obama "natural born citizen" cases, you have to have "standing" to bring a lawsuit.

To have standing you have to show "unique harm", that is, you have to show how an individual is specifically harmed above all others.

Since the meat of this doesn't go into effect until 2014, and it'll take several years for a suit to reach SCOTUS, there isn't a prayer of getting this blown out as unconstitutional.
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Re: State's Rights in the 21st Century

PostBy: jpete On: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:15 pm

brckwlt wrote:i have no idea ... please explain about baseball ....


Honestly, I haven;t looked into it that much. I don't know enough about the structure of MLB vs NFL or some other governing body. If MLB has some sort of direct control over the teams, it could be said to be a monopoly and the government could break it up.

But since they have decided to say that baseball isn't "interstate commerce" they don't have to deal with it.

But that is why you can't buy health insurance across state lines but you can with car insurance.

The theory is that as a person, I am generally only in one state, but I MIGHT drive my car into a different state.

It's BS, but that's how they justify it.
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