lawnboy lawnmowers, the best hand mower

I have 2 lawn boy M-series mowers. 1 that I would be willing to part with if anyone is interested, 1 that I'm repairing. I cant say enough about the build quality of the M series. Has a 5 hp oil injected 2 stroke, 3spd self propelled and blade brake clutch,weighs about 100lbs. Cuts thru anything you can throw at it,as long as you are not mulching. Not too much blue smoke from these models,oil injection, runs right around 64:1 mix as far as the manual says. Had the one since 1999 and has been good to us, wife decided she wanted a new lighter mower, happy anniversary baby, a brand new Snapper NXT self propelled elec. start job. Lighter in weight, but has as much or more power than the Lawn boy. We'll see how long this one lasts.

Bill

OK Guys I need advise, 3 on local craigs list

1.Gold model 10515 21" horsepower not listed $250.00

2. Silver Pro, with a Dura Force Engine 6.5hp $150.00

3. Silver Pro same engine, says it has offset wheels, $175.00

Whats the difference or should I buy all 3

Bk

bksaun wrote:OK Guys I need advise, 3 on local craigs list

1.Gold model 10515 21" horsepower not listed $250.00

2. Silver Pro, with a Dura Force Engine 6.5hp $150.00

3. Silver Pro same engine, says it has offset wheels, $175.00

Whats the difference or should I buy all 3

Bk

10515, no question about it. The Silver mowers had steel decks, the Gold had cast aluminum. The 10515 has the "F" engine - which was the OMC design "classic", whereas the Dura Force was a Toro design - not bad but they tended to run lean and surge in rpms unless the carb was modded.

Seems to be a few experts here so please allow me to inject a tech question in the middle of this thread

As posted a couple of pages ago on this topic, I have a Silver series for over 13 years and it;'s been great. I want a new mower with all the fancy crap they have but have no reason to give up on this one; it just keeps working. However I have a nagging problem I cant seem to fix. The engine constantly surges. I have cleaned the carb and replaced the air filter, spark plug and muffler. Ideas?

ablumny wrote:Seems to be a few experts here so please allow me to inject a tech question in the middle of this thread

As posted a couple of pages ago on this topic, I have a Silver series for over 13 years and it;'s been great. I want a new mower with all the fancy crap they have but have no reason to give up on this one; it just keeps working. However I have a nagging problem I cant seem to fix. The engine constantly surges. I have cleaned the carb and replaced the air filter, spark plug and muffler. Ideas?

Does yours have the Dura Force engine? If so, the surging is a well-known and fixable issue. I forget exactly what the cure is, but it is pretty simple and involves drilling out one of the carb jets a little bit, IIRC. Google for Dura-Force surging and you'll find it. I would guess that if you have the "V" engine the fix would be similar.

Not sure what engine I have but I will research your reply further. Thank you !!

europachris wrote:

ablumny wrote:Seems to be a few experts here so please allow me to inject a tech question in the middle of this thread

As posted a couple of pages ago on this topic, I have a Silver series for over 13 years and it;'s been great. I want a new mower with all the fancy crap they have but have no reason to give up on this one; it just keeps working. However I have a nagging problem I cant seem to fix. The engine constantly surges. I have cleaned the carb and replaced the air filter, spark plug and muffler. Ideas?

Does yours have the Dura Force engine? If so, the surging is a well-known and fixable issue. I forget exactly what the cure is, but it is pretty simple and involves drilling out one of the carb jets a little bit, IIRC. Google for Dura-Force surging and you'll find it. I would guess that if you have the "V" engine the fix would be similar.

I have a large lawn, pretty rough, and lots of it is sloped just enough that I'm uncomfortable riding across the slope on a lawn tractor. And if I ride up and down the slope I still have to turn around or back down at the top which can be hairy. So I have been mowing with self-propelled walk-behinds for many years. I would still be willing to walk behind, but I'd rather ride, and either way I want something with at least a 48-inch deck instead of 20 inches. Preferably under $2500. Recommendations, anyone?

Yep, surging is a common thing today - a direct result of EPA regulations. Lean carburetion causes surging, or "lean surge". My 4-stroke John Deere does it, the Toro push mower I have does it ... mowers I work on do it. Makes them hard to start too, but boy our air is sooooooooo clean, ain't it???

Surging in a 2-stroke will mean a short life for that engine. It's a death knell. A 2-stroke will melt if too lean - guaranteed. And I don't mean "lean" as in "not enough oil" - that will melt them too. I mean lean, as in not enough fuel. Just as bad as not enough - or too much oil. Too much oil causes a lean fuel condition. You have to be smarter than the engine.

The "surge" means it wants more fuel. Tell the EPA to go F themselves while burning a pile of styrofoam, & hog out that main jet (hi speed jet). Now don't literally hog it out with a 7/16ths drill bit, but find a bit that fits inside perfectly, then use the next size up. And no, this won't work with that set of bits you bought at Sears - you need very precise bits in precise increments. One half of one thousandth of an inch increase will make a difference in the way it runs. You have to go up a little at a time, running it each time to test, to make 100% sure it's happy. Once you go too far, you'll have to replace the jet & start over ... and I know of no one who enjoys doing a job twice.

rberq, I don't know what to tell ya there ... unless you can find a lawn tractor with a snowmobile engine installed. Never seen a 2-stroke lawn tractor ... but I'm sure I could build one. A 4-stroker is guaranteed a short life on steep hills ... maybe a little less short if it has full-pressure lubrication, like some Kohler's do.

SMITTY wrote:rberq, I don't know what to tell ya there ... unless you can find a lawn tractor with a snowmobile engine installed. Never seen a 2-stroke lawn tractor ... but I'm sure I could build one. A 4-stroker is guaranteed a short life on steep hills ... maybe a little less short if it has full-pressure lubrication, like some Kohler's do.

The other issue is a lot of the less expensive lawn tractors do not have stout enough transaxles to handle constant steep hills - especially hydrostatic models. The low-end "big-box" Cub Cadet tractors fit this problem, and I'm sure many others too. They just overheat and quit.

I'd find an older Cub Cadet (mid to late 80's) with the big Sundstrand hydro and a worn-out engine. There is a company http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/ that offers a V-Twin Honda repower kit that is really nice. You then get a bulletproof drivetrain that uses half the gas of the old iron flathead Kohler and will handle the hills. Since the original Kohler engine liked to blow up, and the replacement Series II version was only marginally better, it should be relatively easy to find a decent transplant candidate!

europachris wrote:I'd find an older Cub Cadet (mid to late 80's) with the big Sundstrand hydro and a worn-out engine....Since the original Kohler engine liked to blow up ... it should be relatively easy to find a decent transplant candidate!

Thanks for the idea. A quick look at Craigslist brought up dozens of Cub Cadets -- I will start looking through the older ones. Are there any particular model numbers that will help zero in on the ones you are recommending?

rberq,I've got a 2165 Cub w a 48" deck/16 hp---I've got a pretty steep hill going down twds. the pasture & mow horizontal--I lean uphill,probably because of my own common sense,but,the Cub is pretty close to the ground gravity wise & I seem to lean less each time I mow---I know that for going up the hill I had to put a set of chains on her--hey,bottom line,you need to find what you're comfortable with--this is my first Cub & I'm real impressed w/ it

rberq wrote:

europachris wrote:I'd find an older Cub Cadet (mid to late 80's) with the big Sundstrand hydro and a worn-out engine....Since the original Kohler engine liked to blow up ... it should be relatively easy to find a decent transplant candidate!

Thanks for the idea. A quick look at Craigslist brought up dozens of Cub Cadets -- I will start looking through the older ones. Are there any particular model numbers that will help zero in on the ones you are recommending?

rberq wrote:

europachris wrote:I'd find an older Cub Cadet (mid to late 80's) with the big Sundstrand hydro and a worn-out engine....Since the original Kohler engine liked to blow up ... it should be relatively easy to find a decent transplant candidate!

Thanks for the idea. A quick look at Craigslist brought up dozens of Cub Cadets -- I will start looking through the older ones. Are there any particular model numbers that will help zero in on the ones you are recommending?

782 and 982 were the final Cub Cadets manufactured under International Harvester ownership before being purchased by MTD. If you're really lucky, you can find these with 3 cylinder Kubota diesels! Also good would be many of the mid to late 90's models which were still built using the "old" IH designs. Here some good info on them:http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/kohlcub.htm

Cub Cadets are still pretty good once you are into the 2500 and 3000 series - I have an '05 2544 - but typical of MTD, each year something gets cheapened up on them to keep the price down. I have the last year of the metal hood/side panels and the plastic hoods they went to either broke or melted.

Old Simplicity tractors are similarly indestructiblehttp://simpletractors.com/ - an old Landlord or Sovereign is a great tractor.

There are tons of other great old lawn tractors - Bolens, Wheel Horse, Sears (yes - late 60's/early 70's Suburban models were tanks) http://vintagesearsgardentractors.com/.

The only thing that's really improved on a "new" tractor is the engine - mostly in fuel consumption and emissions, and most are full pressure lube with filters. The old iron flathead splash lube engines were good, but I don't think would last half as long as a Kohler Command V-twin.

MTD = Made To Destruct.

Complete & total junk - anything they build.

The old Craftsman lawn tractors were tanks. Very tough & well built, unlike current Craftsman products. We bought one brand new in 1982 or so ... had it for over 20 years, & the only time a wrench went near it was to change the oil & belts. Still started right up when we sold it.

Thanks Chris, picking up the 10515 today for $225.00 it started first pull looks in decent shape too.

Bk

europachris wrote:

bksaun wrote:OK Guys I need advise, 3 on local craigs list

1.Gold model 10515 21" horsepower not listed $250.00

2. Silver Pro, with a Dura Force Engine 6.5hp $150.00

3. Silver Pro same engine, says it has offset wheels, $175.00

Whats the difference or should I buy all 3

Bk

10515, no question about it. The Silver mowers had steel decks, the Gold had cast aluminum. The 10515 has the "F" engine - which was the OMC design "classic", whereas the Dura Force was a Toro design - not bad but they tended to run lean and surge in rpms unless the carb was modded.

Just so happens I was working on an MTD product today. Just about equaled the Gulf disaster when I finally got it to run - then I think I killed every insect in a 10 mile radius.

$30 bucks it's yours.