What is the hottest your chimney has gotten up to?

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:40 pm

I can actually rebuild the inside of a chimney with terra cotta liners, and the cost works out to be the same as doing it with stainless steel. The stainless steel liner carries a lifetime warranty and the terra cotta carries a tail light warranty, when you can't see my tail lights anymore, then the warranty is gone too.

Mike
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:53 pm

" I would not risk my life, or the life of my family on the premise that something probably won't happen"

yes, if one wanted to be totally safe you would put yourself in a buuble. i understand the "risks" with unlined chimneys completely, i was not coming from a point of ignoranc of the "risks" involved nor the thoughts behind why codes were written to minimize such risk. but my point was and still is, an unlined interior chimney in decent condition, used with coal only presents a risk so small, the difference betweent risk w/out a liner vs. liner is virtually nonexistant. i would not hesitate to sleep in that home myself or with my family, i am that confident. btw, clay tile may not come w/ a warrenty, however, if you plan on using only coal, there is no better lining material. i am surprised that stainless would be offered w/ a lifetime warrenty for coal use. i would be far more worried that down the road, when the stainless rots through, warrenty or not, and gasses may exit the liner at a lower location, through convection go between the liner and the brick to a higher point where they NOW will exit into the home through a crack in the mortar or brickwork becaust of the top blockoff plate not allowing gasses that leak out of a leaky liner to exit the chimney outdoors.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:37 pm

Bingo! This is why I would never use a S/S liner. Sure, it's an instant fix for an old chimney in poor condition, and a time bomb that will go off.... sooner or later even with a warranty. Since you have an old chimney that is in good shape and has a good draft (it's purpose), you don't really have a problem. If a bag of grain fell over the top, it really wouldn't matter if it had a liner or not.
Last edited by coaledsweat on Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea


PostBy: Complete Heat On: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:52 pm

Security Class A systems come with a 30 year warranty, to include coal. Ventinox (316TI)has a lifetime warranty on their liners, except for coal, where the warranty drops to a ten year warranty. However, when they say coal, they mean all types of coal. Anthracite has such a low sulfur content to it that it will have minimal effect on the liner. Metalbestos Class A chimneys come with a standard ten year warranty, except for "certain types of coal". I wrote Metalbestos (selkirk) and asked if Anthracite was of that certain type, and they said that it was not, so the warranty is still good for ten years. Homesaver liners (316, 316TI) come with a lifetime warranty, even if you are burning coal. The NFPA and common sense dictate that every flue should be inspected on an annual basis to make sure that the liner is in good condition.

Another consideration is how the liner is installed, whether it is terra cotta or stainless. If there is a chimney cap installed, then the liner stays dry and the sulfur in the ash remains dormant. Let water in, and then it will start to attack the liner, clay or steel. I have seen hundreds of oil flues (clay) totally destroyed by the effects of the sulfur and water mixing together. All of the SS liner systems have to installed with a chimney cap to maintain their UL listing, because that was how they were tested.

I lost a friend to carbon monoxide poisoning (oil heat), it should have never happened, but it did. I try not to let Murphy sit at any table that I am seated at. For fun, I fly competition aerobatics, so I do not live in a bubble, but I wear a parachute when I fly and practice egress procedures (on the ground) with my eyes closed, so should something happen that never should happen, I am ready.


Mike
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:05 pm

"Anthracite has such a low sulfur content to it that it will have minimal effect on the liner"

actually anthricite in general has a higher sulfur content than many bituminous coals, just less moisture so acid attack is reduced. i understand what you are saying, i've also been around, rebuilt and seen just about every configuration in residential and industrial chimneys that exist in the us as well as eastern europe, germany and the uk. i too have seen the results of fuel oil/ mazut use in clay chimneys big and small and the deterioration the results from low flue gas temps/high sulfur fuel/ and faulty clay liners from the manufacturors. i would still prefer clay in almost every chimney situation except for perhaps an old smoke dragon woodstove that produces excessive tar and creosote thus causing recurring chimney fires. sudden changes in temp over 500ºF can cause cracking in poorly built clay lined flues; the mason must truely know what he's doing to prevent cracking and allow enough expansion for clay to survive many of those episodes such as is common w/ recurring chimney fires.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:22 pm

That is why they make Fords and Chevys. Make mine Stainless steel (Chevrolet). :)
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:22 am

Complete Heat wrote:That is why they make Fords and Chevys. Make mine Stainless steel (Chevrolet). :)


Actually, Ford had at least 3 different cars made from S/S. Not sure but I'll guess a '30s, one in the '40s and one in the '50s, I think it was a Vicky. To my knowledge, Chevrolet never made a S/S car. But I'm a MOPAR guy, so I must be wrong?

http://www.deloreanmotorcar.com/dmc/36ford.htm


http://www.advanced-stainless.com/Stainless-Steel-Car-History.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.



http://www.wrhs.org/cfm/auto/autoimage.cfm?auto_id=138
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


They built 6, 4 are still left.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:54 pm

What about the Impala S/S? 8)

Mike
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:44 pm

I seem to have "ignited" quite a discussion with my unlined chimney comments. I guess that's what this forum is for...though.
All of the statements have merit, I think the point is that as long as the chimney that is used is in good physical condition and is inspected on a regular basis all should be well. I have 2 chimneys on each end of the house. The coal stove chimney is chimney block w/ a tile liner. The other chimney is fieldstone w/ 2 flues, 1 for the fireplace and one for the furnace. The flues are not straight runs, there are offsets, and there are tile liners.
I had a steel liner installed to the insert in the fireplace a few years ago. While the woodstove was burning I saw smoke exiting from the side of the chimney above the peak of the roof. Inspection showed that the top 3 feet of the chimney was deteriorating from time and exposure to weather, etc. I also had a problem with the flue to the cellar, which at one time serviced a coal furnace. I was doing routine maint. on the oil furnace and I noticed hardly any draft. I pulled the pipe from the chimney and found that pieces of tile liner had fallen and blocked 3/4 of the opening (the flue ends where the pipe opening is). Both chimneys were build in the 1930's.
That's when I bought the CO detector.
Many years ago (probably the 1930's) my mother, aunt, and grandmother were tenants in a multi-family house in Newark, NJ that caught fire. According to my mother's account it was caused by a "defective flue" in the chimney to the coal boiler in the basement. The chimney was brick, she told me when they got outside the bricks by the ground were "glowing red", and the fire traveled through the walls of the building and left them homeless in the winter.
End of story, I guess the moral is "check the chimney".
Thanks.
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Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:47 pm

Mike,
C'mon---we all know the S/S doesn't mean stainless steel!...or does it???
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:49 pm

Coaledsweat,

There was a Vicky that had a stainless steel panel on the roof, I think. But my favorite is the '55 with the glass roof and the backlighted speedo.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:45 pm

I don't remember a Ford with a SS roof, but there was a Chrysler product that had a SS roof, from the late 50's or early 60's I think.

I have a '55 Crown Victoria without the Plexiglass roof. Mine is a factory 'hot-rod' Has 4.11 gears, and the thunderbird version of the 'Y'-Block engine: 312 Cu In. with FourBarrel and Solid lifters. A fairly rare car.

Greg L.
Last edited by LsFarm on Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:49 pm

You are right, it wasn't a Ford with the ss panel. Your car sounds nice, what color is it?
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:02 pm

LsFarm wrote:I don't remember a Ford with a SS roof, but there was a Chrysler product that had a SS roof, from the late 50's or early 60's I think.

I have a '55 Crown Victoria without the Plexiglass roof. Mine is a factory 'hot-rod' Has 4.11 gears, and the thunderbird version of the 'Y'-Block engine: 312 Cu In. with FourBarrel and Solid lifters. A fairly rare car.

Greg L.


The '56 Vic I believe had a FEW made w/like a landau deal, 1/2 the roof.

You Vic is RARE, not fairly.

This is a real S/S car.


http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions/lot_detail.html?LOT_ID=SC0507-52438
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea