And Equality For All! Except of Course--

And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: snuffy On: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:46 pm

Read in today's Harrisburg Patriot Newspaper about a proposed bill in the US Senate that will charge a new BTU tax on all carbon based fuels. Supposedly it's based on the BTU level of the fuel and will be paid by the first link in the chain. Maybe we can get Anthracite coal to be rated at 1.1 BTU per pound. That way we can sneak around the tax at a minimal rate.

Seems my coal was really lousy this year! Anybody else have that experience?
snuffy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF250 & Mark III backup
Other Heating: Oil Hot Water

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: brckwlt On: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:38 pm

this sounds like a load of crap. When will this admin stop taxing everything. They are even making up things to tax now. This is ridiculous. more and more "green" " Global warming" hippie save the earth crap. the thing that pisses me off the most is that emission from fuel have nothing to do with global warming and that the earths temps arent even rising. This environmental B.S. needs to be shut down.

what would this do to the price of coal? i would imagine it would make it un affordable?

Is this on a national level or state level proposal?
brckwlt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: Rebuilt 1953 AA-130

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: snuffy On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:44 am

This is a national TAX paid by the fuel source. This is the way Politicians work. Make someone else collect the tax and remit it. The consumer has no way of evaluating what the tax is or even whether the price of the final delivered product has a carry charge for collecting the tax.

For example, Cable TV companies have to collect Franchise Taxes and remit it to the local taxing body. Everyone looks at the cable company as the BAD Actor when if fact it's the local taxing body forcing the collection. The Taxing Body never takes the hit on PR - what do they care whether it causes a business to lose customers - they get the money with no black eye. Look at your phone bill sometime. The taxes are equal or more than the service provided.

I may have to consider sending smoke signals from my Harman Mark III. Just for spite I'll use Pine trees.
snuffy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF250 & Mark III backup
Other Heating: Oil Hot Water


Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:25 am

[quote="snuffy"]This is a national TAX paid by the fuel source. This is the way Politicians work. Make someone else collect the tax and remit it. The consumer has no way of evaluating what the tax is or even whether the price of the final delivered product has a carry charge for collecting the tax.[quote]

This a precursor of the VAT or Value Added Tax that's sure to come. The VAT has been used in Europe for years and is a user tax with a difference. If you know this, sorry, but it's a new concept to a lot of folks. The tax is placed on the item after every stage of production. The coal is mined, value is added so the tax applies, the coal is processed, value is added so the tax applies, the coal is bagged, value is added so the tax is applied, the coal is shipped, value is added so the tax applies, the dealer puts it in his stock, value is added so the tax is applied. By the time the product gets to the consumer, they are reimbursing everyone who touched the item before they got it so the tax is astronomical. The estimates of money raised with the VAT is in the Billions a year and that's being borne by the end users, you and me, on anything you purchase. Ask yourself, who assigns the value at each step of manufacturing? Does a skilled artisan add more value to a product than does someone on the assembly line? How much is that difference in value? Who knows how much the VAT will be on any given product. Remember the VAT is on top of every other sales tax, real estate tax or any other tax currently out there. This would have been hard to stop given our current debt level but given the increase of the debt level when the health care bill was passed, I'm betting its a sure thing now.

The VAT tax is why the standard of living in Europe has steadily decreased for decades. I read some where that the Europeans pay 70% of their income on taxes. Think about it you'd get to keep .30 on the dollar. People defer getting anything new until they absolutely have to. The cost of food skyrockets, think of how many hands a box of cereal passes through on the way to your table. Eating out is becomes very expensive. People become more and more dependent on the government for their subsistence; losing more and more personal liberties. The good part is that everyone is equal and will pay the VAT. Get ready, it's coming. Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: Stephen in Soky On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:43 am

I guess we all ought to be rejoicing actually.......after all, we must all make more than $250,000 because he promised no tax increases on people who make less than that.
Stephen in Soky
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Warm Morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 500

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: wlape3 On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:54 am

Stephen in Soky wrote:I guess we all ought to be rejoicing actually.......after all, we must all make more than $250,000 because he promised no tax increases on people who make less than that.


Well, we already know his promises aren't worth much. I'm wondering what kind of whoppers he's going to come up with to get reelected in 2012.
wlape3
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: 140 auger, forced hot air

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:09 am

wlape3 wrote:
Stephen in Soky wrote:
Well, we already know his promises aren't worth much. I'm wondering what kind of whoppers he's going to come up with to get reelected in 2012.


His reelection will only happen if the people allow it. Get involved today! Give him a congress that he has to actually work with in 2010 and then work for who you trust to restore and honor the Constitution - Democrat or Republican. Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:14 am

I went on the Harrisburg Patriot website & couldn`t find anything, even searched the 14 day archive. What day was this article?
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:57 pm

I just did a look see also and turned up nothing. Research sure gets bogged down when I can't find what I'm looking for
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:59 pm

Now I did find a reference for back in 1993 on a BTU tax from the Clinton Admin.
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:03 pm

My gosh do you fellas know that if you type in "BTU tax patriot news" on google that it actually shows this posting already and in second place.
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: tvb On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:38 pm

Snuffy went to the MIchelle Bachmann school of economics where the slogan is
when the truth doesn't work, just make crap up.
tvb
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: brckwlt On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:43 pm

tvb wrote:Snuffy went to the MIchelle Bachmann school of economics where the slogan is
when the truth doesn't work, just make crap up.


that is also this administrations policy ... seems to work good for them
brckwlt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: Rebuilt 1953 AA-130

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: snuffy On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:47 pm

For the record, I resent gratitious taxes and the Obama Carbon tax meets this definition. I found the apparent source of the Patriots news on taxing carbon at the source. Businessweek puts it this way "In his budget, Obama included a "cap-and-refund" proposal that puts a strict limit on pollution that causes global warming and uses a permit auction to make large companies pay for the right to pollute. The cap on emissions will increase the price of fossil-fuel-based energy to encourage efficiency and new technologies. To protect consumers from rising prices, Obama's plan refunds the revenue from the auctions directly to the American people through a tax credit."

The refund could be up to $6,000 annually per taxpayer. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't find more cuts in my daily expenses to meet current and future planned tax increases. My solution for me is to quit working so hard - it "ain't" worth it!

I'm a fiscal conservative, and this philosphy by Obama and the Democratic administration is taking the wind right out of my sails if not out of my draft!!
snuffy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF250 & Mark III backup
Other Heating: Oil Hot Water

Re: And Equality For All! Except of Course--

PostBy: brckwlt On: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:50 pm

and the kicker is global warming is made up ... all of these taxes are for something that doesnt even exist ... doesnt that really piss you off? i know it pisses me off :mad:
brckwlt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: Rebuilt 1953 AA-130