The Shroud of Turin

Forum rules
As the title "Thoughtful and Intelligent Debates" implies we want quality discussion in this forum. If you're going to post a new topic or reply to one here please make sure it fits the following guidelines.

  • Clear and descriptive title for your topic.
  • You don't need to write a book but please have a reasonable amount of material to support or dispute what you are discussing.
  • Outside references to material to support or dispute your argument can be used but they should not wholly make up your argument. If for example you reference a news article please explain exactly what you are referencing and why.
  • Stay on topic, while topics will wander in the general forums we want to keep them strictly on topic in this forum. Flaming will not be tolerated at all.

The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: spc On: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:22 am

The history channel has a fascinating program "The Real Face of Jesus?". Experts try to accurate depict the face of Jesus Christ using the 14' linen cloth believed to have been used for His burial. It re-airs Saturday, Apr 3, at 8PM.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:47 pm

I am under the impression that the Shroud has been dated much later to be that of Jesus.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: brckwlt On: Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:07 pm

i recorded it on the dvr and have watched about half of it or more. very good so far.

The claim that it is dated later then when Jesus walked the earth has many flaws to it.
brckwlt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: Rebuilt 1953 AA-130


Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Apr 02, 2010 4:25 pm

The last I heard was that with a new dating process they found that the cloth could be from the correct time. IMO this is going to be going on for darn near ever, someone will find proof that they feel is correct & another will find something else to dispute it.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: DonnaK On: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:25 pm

I find it quite incredible and intriguing that the first photograph taken of it showed the image clearly in the negative . Now, all these years later, computer technology is able create a face. I won't go into detail regarding the info on the show in case some of you are going to watch the replay, but I think it's worth the time to watch it, whether you are Christian, non-Christian, agnostic or atheist.
DonnaK
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: SF2500A

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: Dann757 On: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:49 pm

I don't care whether the Shroud is real or not. You hold your faith in your heart. I'm not much of a Christian with all the nasty political bickering I do here. But I do believe I have felt the presence of The Holy Spirit in my life, and I believe my life has been spared more than once. And I really have been contemplating whether I could ever stop sinning on my own. I have an old high school friend that used to be a heavy cocaine user, absolute maniac. Now he's a Christian and lives a clean and wholesome life. I guess you have to ask for help and work at not harboring hatred in your heart. Thanks for the post.
Dann757
 

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:02 pm

Dan757

We'll not stop sinning until the day you die but mean while Christ payed that price until then. This fact does not give you license to sin on purpose regardless. I can't find the statement that Paul made on this point but when I find it I will post it for you.

Bill S.

Found It:


<< Romans 7 >>
King James Bible
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520, 1980
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:31 pm

Read the end of Matthew,Mark,Luke and especially John because there is a little more information there such as the napkin that was on His face folded in a different place. All mention "CLOTHES" plural apart from the napkin which means more than 1 cloth or covering. So the if napkin was covering His face then the shroud is not Christ's burial "cloth". Whether it is or not is not important because it'll become another object of worship in one way or another if it's even thought to be authentic. Has anyone ever noticed that not one item of Christ's personal items/possessions have yet to show up anywhere? Why do you think that is? I think He is definitely behind this because He meant what He said "4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." It's just another distraction from the truth of Christs gospel of salvation.

Happy resurrection day everyone.
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520, 1980
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: samhill On: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:03 pm

Christos Voskrese! Voistinu Voskrese! Christ has risen! Indeed he has risen! Happy Easter, an old Slovak saying.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160/ hitzer 75

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:25 pm

Thank you for your wishes but more accurate "Happy Resurrection Day" Easter is actually a pagan holiday>http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520, 1980
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: jpete On: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:52 am

Thanks for the accuracy Bill. I'm not what you would call religious, so I shake my head at Christians ferociously defending holidays that are grounded in paganism and only exist due to the Pax Romana.

And then there is the whole issue of the Gregorian calendar that we use, who knows when these events actually occurred. There are all kinds of time line problems that are conveniently ignored.

But, I guess that is what "faith" is all about, I don't question what people choose to believe. I'm sure they don't much agree with me either. :)

Anyhow, have a good day, how ever you choose to celebrate.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: The Shroud of Turin

PostBy: BillMarti On: Sun Apr 04, 2010 2:57 pm

Samhill,

You are correct again we really don't know the actual dates but again "Biblical Christians" celebrate His resurrection every day of our salvation. We do this by tradition not by "Holy Days" because there's no such thing. But at any rate have a good day.
BillMarti
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520, 1980
Stove/Furnace Model: 520