The end of commerce

The end of commerce

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:49 pm

What are we going to use for money?

We went to the ice cream place yesterday. They had signs posted saying, Sorry, we can't accept bills greater than $20. Too many counterfeit $50s and $100s.

People look askance at official bank checks. Too easy to make on a computer in the privacy of your own home.

I tried to buy an inexpensive car ($3000) recently, sight unseen from another state, because it was just what I wanted, I had pictures, and I was reasonably sure the seller was describing it honestly. But no way could I get her to take my money! I said I'd send her a personal check or a bank check, she could wait until her bank told her the check was good, then I'd arrange for a transporter to pick up the car. No go -- her bank said the check could "later" turn out to be fraudulent. I said I'd wire the money directly to her bank account. No go -- she wouldn't give out her account number, which my bank needed. In reality, I was trusting her far more than she was trusting me, and maybe that's what scared her -- she couldn't believe I would gamble the $3000, so she assumed I must be running some kind of scam that would come back on her. About the only way I could have closed the deal was to drive or fly to her with cash in my pocket. And then I'm sure she would have been spooked at any bills bigger than tens and twenties, which requires a pretty big pocket when you are dealing in the thousands of dollars.

So, with all the scammers and counterfeiters messing up the US financial system, how will we buy and sell? Will we be back to biting down on gold coins to judge their authenticity? Has anyone else run into problems like this recently?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: brckwlt On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:52 pm

why didnt u just pay her through pay pal

thats how most people do things
brckwlt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: Rebuilt 1953 AA-130

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:54 pm

How does pay pal work? Doesn't it have sort of an escrow provision, whereby the buyer can protest after the fact and put the money in limbo until buyer and seller agree everything is OK?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane


Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: brckwlt On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:59 pm

maybe? not sure, ive never had a problem with it. I paid a certain person on the forum 3500 dollars for my boiler and had no problems. But he is a trustworthy person, so i wasnt worried.

but paypal is how almost every transaction on ebay is done. Ive done about 90 transactions on ebay with paypal and havent had a problem and various other paypal transactions on internet sites to purchases things without a problem so far.

Not saying its perfect or fool proof, but just an idea the next time you are in a situation like that.

could you of offered her a Certified check from your bank?
brckwlt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: Rebuilt 1953 AA-130

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:40 pm

Paypal is not bank and it should be treated as such. Fine for small purchases but I wouldn't use it for anything else.

rberq wrote:Doesn't it have sort of an escrow provision, whereby the buyer can protest after the fact and put the money in limbo until buyer and seller agree everything is OK?


I've never used it to sell anything but what I do know is if the buyer wants to give you a hassle they can. The common complaint is Paypal will suspend an account which includes preventing you from taking out your money and if my understanding is correct thaty includes other funds in the account. Then take forever to resolve the problem and from what I have read they err on the side of the buyer.

I can see not accepting checks via mail but accepting them from someone with verifiable identity should not be an issue. Writing bad checks is a felony, if you start messing around writing bad checks you're going to end up in jail. Might be surprising but I only saw one bad check in the coal business and probably 95% of the payments were by check. The one that was bad was quickly resolved a few days later, whether she wrote in on purpose I have no idea but she should have said something and saved herself the penalties because she was long time customer and I would have given her credit. As far as the credit goes only a few never paid that, people are mostly honest.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:08 pm

Thus why keeping SHTF money on hand better be small bills.

Something I've noticed since the Bernanke press has been running 24/7, fresh sequential bills......
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Black_And_Blue
 
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Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:12 pm

Yes,most people are honest,but like everything else the negative gets front page attention & people are scared--nobody seems to trust anybody anymore :( --I've got a fool proof system--if my male Lab don't like you,I don't like you :)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
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Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: jpete On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:17 pm

Don't get caught carrying a large amount of cash. That is apparently a sign of criminal activity and will result in getting your cash confiscated and you having to prove you're innocent.
jpete
 
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Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:12 pm

jpete wrote:Don't get caught carrying a large amount of cash. That is apparently a sign of criminal activity and will result in getting your cash confiscated and you having to prove you're innocent.

Yeah, I love that confiscation thing where the cops can grab money, vehicles, etc. and keep or sell them for their own benefit. Talk about a conflict of interest!

What bugged me, in the car-buying attempt, was the woman's bank telling her a check could "later" prove fraudulent and she could be held responsible. I believe all check clearing now is electronic, and takes less than 24 hours. Then, the drawn-on bank must return a non-sufficient-funds check within a day, or it has forfeited the right to return it. So within a couple of days the car seller should have been confident that the money was good, period.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: spc On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:18 pm

"Protects Online Buyers and Sellers from Fraud"

https://www.escrow.com/index.asp?pid=1344

Seems legit.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:36 pm

How to recognize counterfeit currency:


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/159508/how_to_recognize_counterfeit_us_currency.html?cat=17
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Get yourself a magnifying glass and look for the microprinting, among other things. The microprint is very hard to duplicate.

Other features such as color shifting ink, security threads, the watermark and fine line printing make counterfeiting extremely difficult. Be observant and you won't have to worry about counterfeits.

The fact that some people might not take it is an inconvenience. But really, should they trust other forms of payment more than cash? Cash is at least instantly verifiable.

My fear is that soon we won't have cash. It will make casual transactions cumbersome and make it impossible to stash some in a mattress. I suspect that the gov will soon realize that they can tap into a vast tax revenue stream by eliminating cash transactions and getting it all on the table.

As for the woman who wouldn't deal, rberq, you should have asked for her lawyer's name and address and sent the payment to him to hold in escrow. He would be obliged to represent you both, possibly for a small fee.
.
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:48 pm

We ran into a similar situation when we were trying to buy a motorcycle out of state. We offered to accompany the seller to the credit union, there was a branch at his location, and get him the cash right then and there. He would have no part of it. I never have figured out why. It worked out better for us anyway when we found the same model bike with less miles and garage kept closer to home, still in another state but closer to home. That seller did follow us to the credit union and we paid cash on the site, went back to his house and loaded up the trailer. I thought the first guy was a little paranoid but who knows. Lisa
lowfog01
 
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Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:10 pm

Black_And_Blue
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:30 pm

Richard S. wrote:Paypal ... Fine for small purchases but I wouldn't use it for anything else ... if the buyer wants to give you a hassle they can. The common complaint is Paypal will suspend an account which includes preventing you from taking out your money and if my understanding is correct that includes other funds in the account. Then take forever to resolve the problem and from what I have read they err on the side of the buyer.

That's the impression I got when I read the Paypal rules. It seemed like, if there was a dispute, Paypal would hold the money indefinitely, with no clear method for resolving the issue. I wonder just how much disputed cash Paypal is holding at the moment, how much they have been holding 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, and so on.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: The end of commerce

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:29 pm

I have been paying with a Post Office money order recently for eBay purchases since PayPal messed up my account and made me mad at them. The sellers I have dealt with have been nice enough to accept the PO money order.

About 20 years ago I was traveling in the Lake Tahoe area. Right before I went on the trip I went to our credit union to get some cash for the trip, nothing larger than $20's. When I was shopping out there i tried to use one of those $20's and the shop keeper wouldn't accept it because he said it looked fake. I just used it in the next restaurant we stopped at with no problem.
It got me thinking that the paper money has no real value, only the relative value we place on it. As long as somebody is willing to give it value, I could have been "trading" colored seashells for what we wanted. And if the next person was willing to accept the seashells as payment from the previous person that I paid then the chain doesn't get broken. That was when I learned about and realized the house of cards that our fiat money system really is.
titleist1
 
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