Delivery of Coal

Delivery of Coal

PostBy: Bob On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:37 am

I am planning to install a coal boiler and the location where I would like to locate the coal bin would require the coal delivery truck to approach the delivery door parallel to the wall the door is in rather than perpendicular to the delivery opening. Is this feasible?
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:00 pm

I would think more than likely. You really need a few details, could you post a drawing or pic. I'm sure the coalman could answer if he could tell what the layout was. Coal delivery is pretty "flexible" from what I understand, and I would bet it is not a big issue for most dealers with the right delivery equipment (a chute?).
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:07 pm

The Coalman [Richard] will need the distance from a hard surface, you don't want the truck to back up on a lawn or over a septic system. So the distance from a solid surface, and if there are any overhead power lines the truck could touch when the bed is elevated and tipped to dump the coal

A sketch or good description is needed.

Welcome to the forum!

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland


PostBy: Bob On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:30 pm

LsFarm wrote:The Coalman [Richard] will need the distance from a hard surface, you don't want the truck to back up on a lawn or over a septic system. So the distance from a solid surface, and if there are any overhead power lines the truck could touch when the bed is elevated and tipped to dump the coal

A sketch or good description is needed.

Welcome to the forum!

Greg L

.


I will try to provide additional descriptive detail. The surface is shale and solid with no load bearing restriction. There are no overhead obstructions. The only potential complicating factor is that the delivery truck would have to back up a slope and would be on that slope for the delivery. the rear of the truck could be adjacent to the bin door if necessary. The slope is a rise of 10 feet in 40 feet--25 percent. My original question was based on a concern whether a coal delivery truck carries a chute which can make a 90 degree turn from the truck into the coal bin.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:50 pm

Any coal delivery truck will be able to do that. On my style truck you can chute it more than a 180 degree arc. Preferably though straight off is best as that gives me the most momentum if I have to chute it around in the bin, I don't like shovels. :P After that slightly less than a right angle is preferable, going between straight off and a right angle becomes a slight problem but it can be done.

One thing to note, if your slope is off angle from the window, e.g one side of the truck is going to be lower than another that can present a problem if the drop is more than foot or so. Preferably the back tires should be perfectly level, I do carry blocks for uneven terrain but you can only block so much.

One other thing to note, as far as my business goes if I can't get it to the bin it's not going in the bin. I don't bucket or wheel barrow coal. There are business that provide this service but they don't have high lifts either. If the delivery is going through a door these can sometimes be pretty tough, the bin has to be directly adjacent to the door... Remember the chutes are straight, coal doesn't go around corners for the most part.
Last edited by Richard S. on Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

PostBy: Bob On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:55 pm

NEPAForum Admin wrote:One thing to note, if your slope is off angle from the window, e.g one side of the truck is going to be lower than another that can present a problem if the drop is more than foot or so. Preferably the back tires should be perfectly level, I do carry blocks for uneven terrain but you can only block so much.


Thanks for the prompt reply. Present conditions do have the "off angle" you describe but that is readily corrected if it is the only problem.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:01 pm

I would suggest you make it as level as possible, it doesn't have to be perfect. With any dump truck you want to be on level ground when lifting the box. The fact that a high lift goes up so high makes this more importaant. I won't lift the box if i can't get it level enough, too many people die that way. :wink:

I'm also assuming the slope is going up and not down, the front of the truck has to be pointed down the hill.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:10 pm

Here's a pic of my smaller truck if you have never seen one so you'll understand why the back wheels have to be level:



As far as front to back being level as I mentioned the front of the truck has to point down the hill, the angle is really irrelevant. Just makes more work because the coal won't slide out as easily.
Last edited by Richard S. on Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:32 pm

Hi Richard, don't you get much frame twist if the rear tires/axle are level and the fronts are not? or do you block up the front to level them too?

I've seen several tall 20yd dumps go over on their sides at construction sites. It is a real mess and very dangerous too.

I had a load of sticky mud/clay mix in my little 5 yd dump, the back lower than the front axle, and when I lifted it all the way up, and the clay/mud didn't slide out, the front of the truck came off the ground about 2 feet. Thankfully I had backed up onto another pile of dirt so the pile kept the truck from standing completely on the tailgate. AFter about a minute the suction of the wet load broke with the bottom and sides of the dumpbox and the load slid out, the front end came down, rather gently too.

Pretty exciting for a minute or two, especially since the dump box is power up, gravity drop. So there was no way I was going to get the box back down, without unloading part of the load. Gravity finaly won out over suction.

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:12 pm

LsFarm wrote:Hi Richard, don't you get much frame twist if the rear tires/axle are level and the fronts are not? or do you block up the front to level them too?.


As long as the rears are level, most of the weight transfers to the rear when it comes off the frame. You can actually fell the truck shift slightly. If it's really bad I may block up a front wheel or just not do it.

I've seen several tall 20yd dumps go over on their sides at construction sites. It is a real mess and very dangerous too.


This is particularly dangerous because your so top heavy and have to work around the truck. You can bet if i don't have to be standing by it I'm not. You would not believe some of the things I've seen people do, Kids running around etc. One guy even saunters over to the side of the truck and sticks his head in between the scissors....
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

PostBy: Bob On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:11 pm

NEPAForum Admin wrote:As far as front to back being level as I mentioned the front of the truck has to point down the hill, the angle is really irrelevant. Just makes more work because the coal won't slide out as easily.


I think I understand. Thanks for the great explanation.

One more question: What size opening for delivery of coal is desirable when the delivery involves a 90 degree turn from the back of the truck?
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:20 pm

The size of a barn. :lol: Anybody that's been doing this for a while is going to be prepared for many different circumstances, I even carry a smaller chute that is specifically for terra cotta pipes.

If for example you're going to have the opening on a side of building a single cider block is sufficient however the more room you provide the easier it is for the person delivering it. The cinder block for eaxmple obstructs your view inside the bin, also you can't manever the chute from right to left.

You mentioned a doorway and as I said these are usually pretty tough unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by doorway. The bin is going to be to the left or right side inside the door so you have narrower margin for give and take because you have to chute it through the door at an angle, plus the height of the door limits the downward angle of the chute which also limits the height of the bin.



From the above example for me it would be much better if there was simply a window or even a cinderblock directly on the side of the bin. Also not you would be able to build your bin higher, anybody with a truck like mine would be able to put coal into window a cinderblock about 5 1/2 feet off the ground, much higher if you could back up to it directly.

Hypothetically speaking If you had a bin with a window like that and all the space in the world on the other side I could probably put about 10- 12 ton in and never touch a shovel.
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Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:52 pm

My parents home had coal delivered with a lift coal truck. The truck would jump the curb backing onto the level sidewalk. It would be parallel to the coal bin window. Two sections of coal chute were used, the second section was almost 90 deg. to the first. There was a adjustable pipe stand at the junction to hold it up. A curved piece of metal was clamped to the first chute to direct most of the coal into the second chute. It worked surprisingly well. What came off mostly went into a strategically placed wheel barrow. As a kid it was fun to watch. Anthracite coal was $12 a ton. $1 extra a ton for burlap bagged coal that was carried in and emptied in the coal bin. My parents never spent the extra, it was too expensive!

Yanche
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

PostBy: Bob On: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:02 pm

NEPAForum Admin wrote:The size of a barn. :lol: Anybody that's been doing this for a while is going to be prepared for many different circumstances, I even carry a smaller chute that is specifically for terra cotta pipes.

If for example you're going to have the opening on a side of building a single cider block is sufficient however the more room you provide the easier it is for the person delivering it. The cinder block for eaxmple obstructs your view inside the bin, also you can't manever the chute from right to left.

You mentioned a doorway and as I said these are usually pretty tough unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by doorway. The bin is going to be to the left or right side inside the door so you have narrower margin for give and take because you have to chute it through the door at an angle, plus the height of the door limits the downward angle of the chute which also limits the height of the bin.



From the above example for me it would be much better if there was simply a window or even a cinderblock directly on the side of the bin. Also not you would be able to build your bin higher, anybody with a truck like mine would be able to put coal into window a cinderblock about 5 1/2 feet off the ground, much higher if you could back up to it directly.

Hypothetically speaking If you had a bin with a window like that and all the space in the world on the other side I could probably put about 10- 12 ton in and never touch a shovel.


Another, and hopefully last, question about the delivery opening.

I will be cutting the opening in one of the walls of the coal bin. There is a roof overhang so in figuring the vertical position of the opening in the wall I need to know the angle of the chute that allows coal to flow. I.E. if a 45 degree angle is required then I must locate the top of the delivery opening the 24" below the roof overhang because there is a 24" overhang. Alternatively if the coal flows at 30 degrees then I can raise the opening. My plan is to cut an opening that is 12" high and 20" wide if this is reasonable--although I can make it larger. As described in this thread the delivery truck will be parallel to the wall in which the delivery is made and will be able to get within a little over two feet from the wall (the overhang limits the approach.)
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:48 pm

Depends on a few things, size, moisture content cleanliness... 45 degrees will work for anything, if in doubt that's what to make it. The person delivering the coal can always block the chute up to make it higher if necessary.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite