Water Softener

 
User avatar
2001Sierra
Member
Posts: 2211
Joined: Wed. May. 20, 2009 8:09 am
Location: Wynantskill NY, 10 miles from Albany
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34

Post by 2001Sierra » Sun. Apr. 14, 2013 12:03 am

Hambden Bob wrote:We've got a Kinetico. Made around the corner in Newbury,Ohio. Runs on water pressure only. No timers,no electricity other than what our well pump uses. has a double resin chamber so that softened water is always available(one waiting in reserve) Uses softened water to do the regeneration process. Does extremely well on salt usage. Not cheap,but is fairly bullet-proof and has been in flawless function for 8 years now.
Me too, Kinetico going on 25 plus years, just replaced the float in the brine tank otherwise nothing else. New guy in the area carrying them is a little shakey, finally convinced the company to give me the information on how to set the newer designed float properly, his information just did not make sense to me :x .


 
User avatar
JRDepew
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri. Feb. 24, 2012 8:35 am
Location: Port Crane, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Post by JRDepew » Wed. Apr. 17, 2013 7:57 am

Rob,

I went with a fleck unit almost 2 years ago now, it has been great. The nice thing about fleck and clack units is that you can service them yourself (or so I hear, hopefully I never have to!)

Joe

 
User avatar
I'm On Fire
Member
Posts: 3918
Joined: Thu. Jun. 10, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Post by I'm On Fire » Thu. Apr. 18, 2013 10:04 am

I get a quote every year for a water softner and every year I say maybe next year. We really need one but they are $$$ and we never seem to have the money for it. Or when we finally do we have some other catastrophe that takes precedence over it.

Our water is so bad we replaced appliances that use water every few years. Our washer and dryer is a complete unit, the washer is now acting up and we've only had it for 3 years. Our hot water heater is leaking, we have only had that for 3 years as well. I'm sure the fridge is the next thing to go as that too is coming up on 3 years.

 
coalnewbie
Member
Posts: 8601
Joined: Sat. May. 24, 2008 4:26 pm
Location: Chester, NY
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Invader 2
Baseburners & Antiques: Wings Best, Glenwood #8(x2) Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice,
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Post by coalnewbie » Thu. Apr. 18, 2013 10:27 am

We have 12ppm of calcium in the water but it tastes great. Showering without a softener is OK. Excess lime is scrapped off the skin with a bowie knife and stored in a bowl to be used as great abrasive toothpaste. No need for a softener and I get my daily calcium.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17965
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Apr. 18, 2013 10:51 am

12 ppm is less than 1 grain per gallon of hardness...no wonder you don't need a softener. My water has 22 grains per gallon of hardness...without a functional softener my fixtures and water heater quickly start to fill with deposits.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17965
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Apr. 18, 2013 10:55 am

IOF, it sounds like you have paid for a softener many times over with appliance replacements and repairs. The unit I just installed is double the capacity of most cabinet units and was $640 to the door. If you want help I am more than happy to help you size a softener and program it.

 
User avatar
I'm On Fire
Member
Posts: 3918
Joined: Thu. Jun. 10, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Post by I'm On Fire » Thu. Apr. 18, 2013 11:07 am

Rob R. wrote:IOF, it sounds like you have paid for a softener many times over with appliance replacements and repairs. The unit I just installed is double the capacity of most cabinet units and was $640 to the door. If you want help I am more than happy to help you size a softener and program it.
Don't I know it. My wife and I always make plans for it but by the time we get around to it one of our other appliances fails. So, we have to spend money that would go towards the softener to replace whatever appliance has been ruined by our terrible water. Help would be nice, because I have no idea what I'd even need to look for. Is it something I could do myself and actually save some $$$?


 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17965
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Thu. Apr. 18, 2013 12:45 pm

You will need to have the water tested to see what you are dealing with, otherwise there is no way to properly select/size the equipment.

If you can do basic plumbing, you should be able to handle the install.

 
User avatar
I'm On Fire
Member
Posts: 3918
Joined: Thu. Jun. 10, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Vernon, New Jersey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Post by I'm On Fire » Thu. Apr. 18, 2013 1:31 pm

Rob R. wrote:You will need to have the water tested to see what you are dealing with, otherwise there is no way to properly select/size the equipment.

If you can do basic plumbing, you should be able to handle the install.
I can do plumbing. We just had our water tested a month or so ago. I'll see if I can find the paperwork from it.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17965
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Sat. Aug. 06, 2016 9:38 am

Latest update to the water system. Our old sulfur treatment system was starting to show its age, and rather than rebuild it I decided to switch to a birm-media unit that uses air to oxidize the sulfur. Our old system used hydrogen peroxide, and although it worked well the peroxide was kind of pain (Cost, limited availability, and I have to monitor it to know when to change the containers). So far I am very impressed with the new unit. No more chemical feed pump to listen to or maintain, no peroxide to purchase, and the water quality is excellent. The unit will pay for itself in ~3 years just in peroxide savings.

Attachments

20160803_173122.jpg
.JPG | 108.5KB | 20160803_173122.jpg

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17965
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Sat. Feb. 20, 2021 9:39 pm

Here we are almost 5 years later - and I just had to replace the piston & seals in my sulfur treatment system for the third time. The first and second set lasted about 2 years each, but the third set lasted less than a year. For some reason it seems like my well is producing more sediment than it used to, and my local water guy confirmed that the sediment was very abrasive on the piston & seals. Normally a sediment filter is not recommended upstream of a system like I have because it can restrict the flow rate needed to backwash the media...but if the filter has a low pressure drop and you change the cartridge as needed, it should not be a problem.

My water guy recommended that I filter down to 5 microns to remove the problem causing sediment, so I installed a "big blue" sediment filter housing and a filter rated for 5 microns. So far so good, I have not noticed any reduction in flow/pressure in the house. Hopefully I can get at least 2-3 months out of a filter before it needs to be changed.

Also - I discovered that the check valve on the inlet of my sulfur system was bound up with sediment, and allowing the air bubble at the top of the tank to escape in ~24 hours. This was preventing the sulfur from getting oxidized as intended. I got everything cleaned up and so far it seems to be holding the air charge like it should - hopefully the sediment filter prevents that from getting bound up again.

My water softener that I installed in 2013 is still working perfectly.

Attachments

PXL_20210219_163735248.jpg
.JPG | 492.2KB | PXL_20210219_163735248.jpg
PXL_20210219_165803624.jpg
.JPG | 501.2KB | PXL_20210219_165803624.jpg

 
User avatar
McGiever
Member
Posts: 10128
Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar

Post by McGiever » Mon. Feb. 22, 2021 9:41 am

For folks following along, 'spin down filters' need no throw-away filter.
Manually flush filter by cracking a valve...can be automated to flush also.

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17965
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Mon. Feb. 22, 2021 9:53 am

Yes - back on the previous page of this thread you can see the spin-down filter I had installed between the sulfur treatment and the water softener. Not shown, but I later replaced that with a "trapper" model that I thought would would do a better job with the fine sand (link below). I also moved the filter upstream of the sulfur treatment to try and keep the sediment out of the control head. That did not work out as intended. Despite using a fine screen, I still got very fine sediment passing through the spin-down filter, and I had to take the filter apart very few months to clean the screen. For some reason the very fine particles would not flush off like you would expect...it was almost like clay.

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/rusco- ... -t-style-1

 
User avatar
swyman
Member
Posts: 2355
Joined: Mon. Apr. 13, 2015 9:50 pm
Location: Blissfield, MI
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson 260M Leisure Line AA-220 Boiler (FOR SALE)
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Pea

Post by swyman » Tue. Feb. 23, 2021 7:17 am

Interesting read, when I bought my house in 2001 one of the first things we did was put a water treatment system in. Ended up up breaking the bank by going with Kinetico. They installed a 180 gallon open aeration tank (I have methane gas in water) with chlorinator (kill iron bacteria). Has a submersible pump in there to supply house. From that holding tank goes to a charcoal filter then their softener. The system is showing it's age now and like Rob I am getting sediment and a lot of it. I was tossing around the idea if a whole house RO system would eliminate all of that stuff? I did just replace the Kinetico under sink RO with a US Water systems RO. The Kinetico filters were very expensive and an inconvenience to get. I really like US Water systems stuff but man everything is so expensive! Oh, I have a very large spin on sediment filter pre aeration tank. Was thinking of getting a backwash type sediment filter to replace that. I called a well company a few years back about the sediment I was getting and they just told me to run the well for 4-6 hours straight and see if it cleans out which it did but always goes back to pumping sand? Thought about raising my pump up a few feet and see what happens?

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17965
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Tue. Feb. 23, 2021 8:55 am

swyman wrote:
Tue. Feb. 23, 2021 7:17 am
Interesting read, when I bought my house in 2001 one of the first things we did was put a water treatment system in. Ended up up breaking the bank by going with Kinetico. They installed a 180 gallon open aeration tank (I have methane gas in water) with chlorinator (kill iron bacteria). Has a submersible pump in there to supply house. From that holding tank goes to a charcoal filter then their softener. The system is showing it's age now and like Rob I am getting sediment and a lot of it. I was tossing around the idea if a whole house RO system would eliminate all of that stuff? I did just replace the Kinetico under sink RO with a US Water systems RO. The Kinetico filters were very expensive and an inconvenience to get. I really like US Water systems stuff but man everything is so expensive! Oh, I have a very large spin on sediment filter pre aeration tank. Was thinking of getting a backwash type sediment filter to replace that. I called a well company a few years back about the sediment I was getting and they just told me to run the well for 4-6 hours straight and see if it cleans out which it did but always goes back to pumping sand? Thought about raising my pump up a few feet and see what happens?
That is quite a system. You might be able to replace the chlorinator and charcoal filter with something like an ozone iron filter, but I think you are stuck with the retention tank to let the methane come out of the water.

RO systems waste quite a bit of water, I can't see how it would be practical to feed an entire house with one. I also think the sediment in your water would be a problem for the RO system.

If my cartridge filter proves to be a maintenance headache, the next step for me is a real sand filter.

https://www.lakos.com/product/sandmaster-separators/


Post Reply

Return to “House, Gardening & DIY Projects”