Wood is not Free

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: no74falcon On: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:03 pm

I have heated with coal and/or wood all my life. After moving into my girlfriend's house last fall, we didn't have financial means to go buy her/us a coalstove. I purchased a nice, used, Shenendoah R77E for $100, put in a new grate for $50, and cut all the wood off my property for no more than $100 for fuel to cut, split, and transport the 12 facecord we used from the middle of November to the end of April. The house is 1600 sq ft. She had been paying about $1500 a year for propane and that was keeping the house at 68 when she was home and 60 when she left. Her and her three kids couldn't believe they could sit in the house all winter wearing shorts and tshirts. The house was never below 70 at the end of a burn, and usually between 80-90. The stove would go 12 hours so it was once in the morning right before we left, and again at night, right before bed. We spent quality time together cutting the wood, enjoying each others company, and nobody is overweight.

I have to admit, we got a hell of a deal on a nice Alaska Channing III in February and can't wait to start using it this fall! I used part of my tax return to buy 6 ton of rice which should be more than enough but we will have a better idea how much it will take to heat by next spring and it shouldn't go bad. Gonna sell a little firewood to help recover the cost of the coal but we all enjoy cutting it and I heat my 30x50 shop with wood too.
no74falcon
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: 2) Leisure Line Pioneers
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: 1) Hitzer 82FA, 1) Newmac WG100
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer, Newmac, Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 82FA, WG100, Pioneer

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:49 pm

no74falcon wrote: Gonna sell a little firewood to help recover the cost of the coal but we all enjoy cutting it and I heat my 30x50 shop with wood too.


That is the way to do it, sell the firewood to those that want it and enjoy the steady heat of anthracite at home. 6 tons of rice will go a long way in a 1600 sq. ft house; especially if 12 facecords of firewood kept it comfortable.

I was at a wedding yesterday and had a nice chat with the man sitting next to me. He is heating a 3700 sq. ft home with a wood boiler in the basement. Beautiful home and heating system, but it requires a lot of firewood. The wood is "free", but it seems to consume most of his free time and requires a lot of equipment. They have had at least one serious chimney fire, and in the middle of the winter he usually comes home to a cold house (fire is out). I suggested selling the firewood and getting the coal grates ordered for his boiler...but I will be surprised if he follows through with it. People really have to SEE anthracite burning and experience it firsthand before they are ready to make the switch.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:07 pm

You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink! You can hold their head underwater, but you still can't make them open their mouths. Some folks will never see the Forest, the damned trees are always in the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couple good chain saws....800.00.....splitter....1600.00.....tractor......10,000.....Emergency eye repairs, torn clothes, stitches, steel toed boots, Helmet, back surgery in season 4, the 'Much I Do Hose Company' has your location programmed in the GPS, all the firemen know even your pets names, you and yours smell smokey all the time......bugs not in the scientific annuals in your home year-round, and the truck body repairs for the "needs to be perfect" Hemi guys. How about those 'cool' 4" Oak, Beech and Maple splinters that 'fester' for weeks......did I forget the bruised chins/legs........slow healing as we age....



Man, I LOVE that Free Wood!!!!! :doh: :surrender: :woot: :eek2: :mrgreen:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB


Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: no74falcon On: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:45 am

whistlenut wrote:You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink! You can hold their head underwater, but you still can't make them open their mouths. Some folks will never see the Forest, the damned trees are always in the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Couple good chain saws....800.00.....splitter....1600.00.....tractor......10,000.....Emergency eye repairs, torn clothes, stitches, steel toed boots, Helmet, back surgery in season 4, the 'Much I Do Hose Company' has your location programmed in the GPS, all the firemen know even your pets names, you and yours smell smokey all the time......bugs not in the scientific annuals in your home year-round, and the truck body repairs for the "needs to be perfect" Hemi guys. How about those 'cool' 4" Oak, Beech and Maple splinters that 'fester' for weeks......did I forget the bruised chins/legs........slow healing as we age....



Man, I LOVE that Free Wood!!!!! :doh: :surrender: :woot: :eek2: :mrgreen:


Pretty dramatic aren't we? Would have to have the saws to cut back hedgerows and brush on the farm anyway. Have farm tractors anyway. Have a splitter that is at least 30 years old so it really doesn't owe us much. Never any eye repairs. A good hardhat with a shield and earmuffs my father purchased for me about 20 years ago for around $20. Using common sense has never resulted in the need for stitches or steel toed boots. Proper cleaning has never resulted in a chimeny fire. The wood never sat in the house, only in the shed and we live on a farm, in the country, so bugs are found every place you look, firewood or not. Always had a "free" wood wagon that would be made from junk trucks that we got for "free" so never any truck repairs. Don't need to be real smart to tell yourself a pair of gloves keeps those splinters away. Must be you levitate your coal to the stove and not use your back to lift it huh? Maybe I just thought it required less work to go cut the wood instead of working so hard looking for excuses not to go cut it.
no74falcon
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: 2) Leisure Line Pioneers
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: 1) Hitzer 82FA, 1) Newmac WG100
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer, Newmac, Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 82FA, WG100, Pioneer

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:23 am

Pretty dramatic aren't we?


Yes, I think he was giving you a good "ribbing". You sound like you have plenty of common sense...not all wood burners are alike. I know many that fit Whistlenut's description.

One point I would like to make...burning wood in a stove is one thing, an outdoor wood boiler (OWB) is another. Many folks spent about 10 grand to install an OWB, bought a tractor and chainsaws, etc etc. Out of the handfull of OWB owners that I know personally, one now has a bad back, one smashed a finger, one burned his barn down from sparks out the smoke pipe, and it goes on... A few of the guys seem happy with their setup, but they admit that they have to handle a LOT of firewood. A friend of mine sold his OWB last year and replaced it with a coal stoker. This spring he said his only regret was that he didn't install the coal boiler in the first place.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: no74falcon On: Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:26 pm

markviii wrote:
Pretty dramatic aren't we?


Yes, I think he was giving you a good "ribbing".


Yeah I figured, but I was also taught to defend myself... :roll: I know the wood thing is a lot of work but I'd either have to work at cutting wood, or go to work at my regular job and work to pay for my coal. I have burned both for a long time and I know that if I purchased enough coal to heat, or purchased enough wood to heat and had it delivered, the wood would still be cheaper, but a little more mess and not as easy.
no74falcon
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: 2) Leisure Line Pioneers
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: 1) Hitzer 82FA, 1) Newmac WG100
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer, Newmac, Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 82FA, WG100, Pioneer

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: coal berner On: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:46 pm

no74falcon wrote:
mark viii wrote:
Pretty dramatic aren't we?


Yes, I think he was giving you a good "ribbing".


Yeah I figured, but I was also taught to defend myself... :roll: I know the wood thing is a lot of work but I'd either have to work at cutting wood, or go to work at my regular job and work to pay for my coal. I have burned both for a long time and I know that if I purchased enough coal to heat, or purchased enough wood to heat and had it delivered, the wood would still be cheaper, but a little more mess and not as easy.

What is the cost for coal in your area Anthracite or Bituminous
it takes 24 ft x 10 ft x 6ft of seasoned hardwood at 60 % Efficiency to = 1 ton of Anthracite coal at 13.100 BTU per lb at 75% efficiency

You need a lot more wood to heat with then you do Anthracite Coal
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:37 pm

coal berner wrote:
it takes 24 ft x 10 ft x 6ft of seasoned hardwood at 60 % Efficiency to = 1 ton of Anthracite coal at 13.100 BTU per lb at 75% efficiency

You need a lot more wood to heat with then you do Anthracite Coal


That's 1,440 cubic feet of wood. A cord is only 128 cubic feet (8 ft. x 4 ft. x 4 ft.). Therefore 1,440 cubic ft. = 11.25 cords

It's probably closer to 1.3 to 1.5 cords of split and stacked mixed hardwoods (seasoned) to equal one ton of anthracite.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:44 pm

Falcon, I was kidding, however many folks new to firewood have little or no experience with equipment as as you stated, this requires hard work, common sense and some machinery. I was not bashing you, because I used to burn 18 full cords a year myself. I know the deal well, and my brother still works up 15 cords himself, but he absolutely loves the entire process.....I'm waaaaaaay past the 'slightly enjoy' phase and yes, I still burn wood occasionally in a Vt Castings Vigilant. Love the smell of apple and cherry burning.

Around me I know 6 guys who have processors and logging operations, so I still stay advised what is up in the wood business.
:shock: :doh: :pepsi: :mrgreen: :alone:
Last edited by whistlenut on Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: coal berner On: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:08 pm

lsayre wrote:
coal berner wrote:
it takes 24 ft x 10 ft x 6ft of seasoned hardwood at 60 % Efficiency to = 1 ton of Anthracite coal at 13.100 BTU per lb at 75% efficiency

You need a lot more wood to heat with then you do Anthracite Coal


That's 1,440 cubic feet of wood. A cord is only 128 cubic feet (8 ft. x 4 ft. x 4 ft.). Therefore 1,440 cubic ft. = 11.25 cords

It's probably closer to 1.3 to 1.5 cords of split and stacked mixed hardwoods (seasoned) to equal one ton of anthracite.

I know what a split cord of wood is I fallen split and burned plenty of wood in the past The calculation came from Penn
State collage of Agricultural Sciences Take it up with them but they are correct 24 ft x 10 ft x 6 ft season hardwood at 60 % Efficiency = 1 ton of Anthracite with a BTU Value of 13.100 btu per lb

http://energy.cas.psu.edu/
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
I have there Energy selector hand held slide scale so you can compare all fuels.
Cost compare Energy /Efficiency

coal
corn
electricity
firewood
# 2 Fuel oil
Natural Gas
Propane
wood pellets
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: rockwood On: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:46 pm

no74falcon wrote:Pretty dramatic aren't we? Would have to have the saws to cut back hedgerows and brush on the farm anyway. Have farm tractors anyway. Have a splitter that is at least 30 years old so it really doesn't owe us much. Never any eye repairs. A good hardhat with a shield and earmuffs my father purchased for me about 20 years ago for around $20. Using common sense has never resulted in the need for stitches or steel toed boots. Proper cleaning has never resulted in a chimeny fire. The wood never sat in the house, only in the shed and we live on a farm, in the country, so bugs are found every place you look, firewood or not. Always had a "free" wood wagon that would be made from junk trucks that we got for "free" so never any truck repairs. Don't need to be real smart to tell yourself a pair of gloves keeps those splinters away. Must be you levitate your coal to the stove and not use your back to lift it huh? Maybe I just thought it required less work to go cut the wood instead of working so hard looking for excuses not to go cut it.


You forgot one of the biggest issues with processing your own wood....time. Time is money to me. Depending on the equipment you have it can take many hours to process enough firewood for one winter.
Lots of people are willing to put forth the time and effort on firewood and that's fine....it suits them. I enjoy cutting and splitting some wood each year but not more than a couple cords now that I'm getting older ;) .
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:10 am

Maybe im speeking too soon and maybe be one already exsists... but im really sensing the need for a "wood vs coal" topic outta this. I grew up cutting, splitting, stacking, throwing and throwing did i mention throwing firewood. I may only be in my mid 20's but I see my grandfather walking with a gimp and a bad back and all damn spring and fall he is out thier cutt'n firewood. I love grandpop and of course i get my ass out thier and help him but in doing so ive missed alot with my daughter whether it be new vocabulary or some first steps. From the prices ive looked up I sure could spend alot less money on firewood, but the non -monetary loss that comes with do it yourself outweighs my situation right now. Ive never burned coal first winter coming up with my new harman so we will see how this goes, but so far building a bin and getting the stove in and setup has taken alot less time. Maybe once the little one gets older yeah alittle firewood work makes for good socializing. But right now i wanna spend my time home from work at home with my wife and daughter. Burning oil is way too expensive, firewood is lowest cost overall but time loss is high(right now), coal by god sure looks like the happy medium.



P.s with this forum... my grandpop pulled his ancient bucket a day out of the pole barn.....
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Nut/Anthracite

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: no74falcon On: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:55 am

Oh no offense taken Whistlenut. My family has heated with a lot of coal AND wood my whole life. At one time, between my parents old farm house, the shop at the farm, and my house, we were going through 100 facecord of wood a year, plus my parents burning a little coal in their house too. I love having coal in the house because as we know, it's a lot steadier. The wood is good for me in the shop because as I'm not down there all the the time now in the winter, it's easier to get going and hot quicker, and I'm not wasting coal keeping it warm when I'm not there. When I rebuild at my house, I will have my Hitzer 82fa down at the shop and can burn either, although I'm thinking about a big stoker to make it... easier. :roll: I do have a Newmac furnace in the shop now that will burn both, and I do use a little coal when I know I'm gonna be in there all weekend.
no74falcon
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: 2) Leisure Line Pioneers
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: 1) Hitzer 82FA, 1) Newmac WG100
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer, Newmac, Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 82FA, WG100, Pioneer

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: leward On: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:25 am

This is what I tell people... I owned a logging company--log trucks , skidder, had crews--the whole deal. I burned coal! If you need a hobby, or want a hobby to burn calories, wood is fine. If you need trouble free easy heat, coal, oil,propane, electric will answer the bill. Cheap heat== now your down to coal and wood. My FIL has a nice shiny looking stainless OWB -- for a normal sized house & garage, he has used 2 1/2 triaxles of wood each winter for the last 3 years. That is a bunch of cutting and splitting. I have done enough manual labor, and am getting lazier and lazier with each year. Wood isn't free, even if you have a logging company. I've been there. I wouldn't bust anyone that wants to do it, but I have way better things to do with my limited time on this earth.........
leward
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
Stove/Furnace Model: 1

Re: Wood is not Free

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:33 pm

When we heated our old house exclusively with wood for the first two years that we lived in it, we generally went through about 5.5 to 7 full (not "face") cords of neatly cut and stacked mixed hardwoods per winter season. Using 1.4 cut and stacked cords of seasoned hardwoods to 1 ton of anthracite coal I'm estimating that if I had heated my old home with coal it would have taken roughly 3.9 to 5 tons annually to do so.

5.5/1.4 = ~3.9 tons coal

7/1.4 = 5 tons coal

Roughly 4 to 5 tons of coal per winter season (for space heating only, not including hot water heating) sounds like it should be somewhere in the general ballpark. Therefore I stand by my equivalence estimate of roughly 1.3 to 1.5 full cords of cut and stacked seasoned hardwoods to one ton of anthracite coal.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)