HI! I'm new!!!

HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:07 am

Obviously. :) Anyway, on to details. I'm from Northern NJ, Sussex County area. I've got an old Rheem oil fired furnace. Its so old that I can't get parts for it anymore and if I do a Google search for it the internet laughs at me. I've also got a modified Century wood stove rated at 155k BTU. It does a decent enough job of heating my house when I'm home but I can't even get any more than an hour burn time on it. Last year I went through 2 cords of wood but the year before that I went through 4 because it was all that I was using.

Anyway, I have some questions.

As I've already stated my Rheem furnace is old. It really does need to be replaced but the problem is my wife and I are strapped for cash. Last winter I went through around 600 gallons of oil with only running it 50% of the time. The other 50% I used the wood stove. So, this spring I decided to service the burner, big mistake that was. After we cleaned re-nozzled it from 80 to 60 installed a new barometric damper set the air and fired it back up. No pressure. The pump didn't like being cleaned. So, now I'm stuck with buying a new burn unit. Seeing how my wife and I really can't afford a new furnace we've decided to just go out and buy a new Beckett burner and for now, install it so that next summer we can hopefully have the money to replace the entire system. My question to you guys is this. I am finding my furnace guy to be a bit unreliable. He says he is coming over one day so I sit around waiting for him and he never shows up. Perfect example: Monday night I got home from work and pulled the old dead burner from the furnace and put it in a box and left it on my deck for him. Per his directions. He said Tuesday he was going to pick it up. Today is Thursday. He still hasn't come. So, I am going to just take it to the plumbing and heating supply house myself and have them order me a new unit. Here is the actual question: I am looking at a Dwyer Mark II Model 25 Manometer, I see on here that everyone is using them to set their coal/wood fired stoves and furnaces. Can I use this unit on my oil fired furnace to set my draft? Because frankly, I'm a mechanically inclined guy and I'm tired of waiting on this guy so I'm just gonna do it myself.

The other question I have is about my wood stove.

Like I said, its a modified Century Free Standing stove. What I did was cut the ash box off of it and welded a plate in the hole and then welded legs on it. The reason for this was because I already had a fireplace but again, it came down money as my wife and I could not afford an insert. So, I did that to put it in the fireplace. I ran a new liner and redid the floor. State code is 18" in front of the stove so I went 33". The issue I am having is that I am only able to get a maximum of 2 hours burn time out of this thing. So, stoking it before bed at 10pm will only net me to 12. I have one damper installed at the base of the liner and the top of the stove. If I were to pull the liner back out and install a t with a barometric damper would it increase my burn time? Could I even use both a manual damper inside the liner and a barometric damper? Or would I be better getting a top mounted damper for the top of the chimney? I'm asking because a Barometric Damper is about $250 cheaper than the top mounted damper. My stove isn't real big the box only measures 18" x 22" and is only rated at 70% efficiency but considering our financial situation its the best I can do right now. Am I pretty much stuck with the crappy burn times? I'm not looking to get an 11 hour burn time like some of the newer units but having maybe at the very least an additional hour or so might alleviate going through fire wood like its going out of style. Speaking of which, does anyone know of anywhere I can get some firewood for less than $200 a cord? I do have a pickup truck and a log splitter so I have no problem driving to get it as long as its within a reasonable distance from my house.

Anyway, to summarize:

Can I use a Dwyr Mark II Model 25 to set the draft on my oil fired Rheem Furnace, and my Wood burning stove for that matter?

Can I install a barometric damper on my wood stove in a T or should I get a top mounted damper for the top of the chimney/liner?
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:59 am

Welcome to the Forum--it's a slow time of the yr. sooo be patient--I'm sure you'll get some feedback on your situation--I'm not really followin you--are you burning wood (yes)--oil furnace (yes) do you plan to go solely to coal??? :?
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:46 pm

I'm not entirely sure I can even burn coal/anthracite in my stove. Can I? I'd have to dig up the paperwork on it. Plus, I've never even burned coal so I don't even know how to do it.

I'm currently burning wood when I am home and using the furnace when I am not.

I have thought about using coal in the wood burning stove I'm just not sure I can.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator


Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:10 pm

Some stoves are hybrids that will burn both wood and coal. To burn coal you need a stove that has shaker grates so that you can remove the ashes and stir the fire. If your stove doesn't have those it will be hard to impossible to burn coal. Do your stove's grates move at all? Coal also requires the draft to come completely from under the fire. Coal stoves have "ash" doors with air vents on them so you can control the air flow. That's how you control the heat production; the more draft the hotter the fire, the less air, the lower the fire. If your stove has both of these things you can burn coal.

A barometric damper is not usually recommended for a wood stove because of the creosote the wood produces. That stuff gets all over the baro damper and throws the weight off making it ineffective.

A wood fire is not going to allow you a long burn without attention to the fire. Coal on the other hand, if properly tended, will burn for 12 or 15 hours with no attention. It also produces a great deal more heat. I didn't see where you are from but coal is generally cheaper then wood unless your wood is free. Coal will burn wet and does not attract bugs. The correct size coal stove will heat your entire house for years. You can find reliable used coal stoves for almost nothing on craigslist and ebay. If I were looking to replace my heating appliance that's how I'd go. What am I saying, that's exactly what I did!

I haven't regretted it one bit and I cut my heating bills in half. Good luck with whatever you decide. Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Does your oil furnace currently have a Beckett burner? If so - the pumps are readily available and much less expensive than a new burner. If you still want to install a different burner, used Beckett's are easy to come by; they show up often on ebay and craigslist. I prefer Riello burners for their clean burn and reliability, but used ones are harder to find and usually more expensive.

The Dwyer Mark II Model 25 Manometer can be used to adjust the barometric damper on your oil furnace, but a regular draft gauge will also do the job. Personally I would just find a new oil burner tech. and have them set it up with the correct instruments.

As for the wood-burning insert, you do not want to use a barometric damper on the flue. In addition to the issue Lisa mentioned, if you have a chimney fire...the baro will open wide and feed the chimney fire huge amounts of air. This can wreck havoc on your chimney and possibly cause a house fire. At $200 per cord, I would be parting company with the wood burner. Used coal stoves can be had for a couple hundred dollars if you look around.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:35 pm

Then, no, no I can not burn coal in my wood burner. I have none of those options on my wood stove that LowFog mentioned. So, I guess the only option I have on the damper for the wood burner is a top mounted damper that is either eletrically or manually (with a chain) controlled? Like I said, I already have one at the base of the liner and top of the stove but I feel it is still burning too hot and quick. I want to slow the burn down a little more. Replacing the wood stove for a coal unit just isn't a viable option for me and my family at this point. We don't have much money so we have to make do with what we have which leaves me with making improvements to the one we have. Heck, my wife is already mad that the furnace is down and needs repair too.

As for the furnace. No, it does not have a Beckett burner. Well....not exactly. I think this thing is what Beckett became. But the pump is no longer available from what I've been told. Its manufactured by Webster Electric. The thing is so old that most of the information on it I can't cross reference to anything else. I could take a picture of the old burner, its sitting in a small storage shed on my deck right now. I mean if anyone is interested. Been waiting for a week for the furnace guy to pick-it-up so he could go get me prices on a replacement. Again, having it repaired from a oil company is very expensive in New Jersey. Last price I got was for $400 and that was just a new filter, nozzle and cleaning. Thats stuff that I had already done for $50. I can only imagine what an oil company would want to come install a new burner.

Edit: I just did a Google search on Webster Electric Hydraulic Pump and it does come up. Maybe this pump is still available afterall?
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:47 pm

Well, just spent the evening doing some research. I feel that I know more about my furnace now than theclown who is supposed to know. Which, really irks me to the point I want to drive to his house and smack him.

Here is what I found out about this pump.

It is manufactured by Webster Electric (which incidentally is now Webster Fuel Pumps),

It was made in 1972. In 2002 this pump was 30 years old. Which means my furnace is 38 years old. So, when I tell people the furnace is 40 years old. I'm not that far off.

The pump is a single stage, 3400rpm, clockwise rotation model. It has a key drive, with a face seal and old style porting (I'm not entirely sure what that means however).

It is rated at 3 gallons an hour max. It is setup for 1 pipe.

The kicker is, this pump was designed to operate without a screen and to never be disassembled. So, since this idiot took it apart it hasn't worked. Not to mention, he made me take the entire burner off the furnace and led me to believe he'll pick it up and get me prices on a new unit. Now, I'm left holding the bag on a part that he broke. Now, I need to see if I can't put this pump back together so it works. I just pulled it apart and put it back together the way I think it should be but its too dark outside to bench test it right now.

If anyone knows anything about these pumps here is the information I got off of it. Maybe someone can help me?

D72 M34DA-3 Webster Fuel Pump
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:50 am

Well, I think I may have found a replacement pump but am unsure if it will actually work or not. Any ideas?

Its manufactured by Webster Fuel Pumps (same company as my old one BTW) with a build date of 2010 its model is: M34DK3 it is a single stage 3450 RPM, face sealing, self cleaning, new port style, 3 gallon per hour.

The only difference I see with it is that it is 50 rpms faster than the old pump which was rated at 3400 rpm and that the input shaft from the motor to the pump is a bit different. Out of both differences the one I am really concerned with is the 50 rpm difference.The shaft I can modify to work and if not, I'll just find a motor to work with the new pump

Any input?
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:12 pm

markviii wrote: At $200 per cord, I would be parting company with the wood burner. Used coal stoves can be had for a couple hundred dollars if you look around.


I agree. I'd personally look at the total cost of replacing your burner and then see it I could find a good used coal stove for less cost. You may find that it's a better expenditure to go with the coal appliance. You'd definitely save on your energy costs. I know the correct sized coal stove would be able to heat your house to a warmer temperature for a lot less money. As I stated, coal needs less hands on then wood and can go 12 or 15 hours without looking at the stove. They are very basic and need little maintenance over time. Several members have their stoves hooked into the house's vent system ducts so that the stove in the basement heats the entire house. You may want to check out the archives and see if switching to coal is a viable alternative. If it comes down to six of one or a half dozen of the other, I'd go with coal. Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:46 pm

I'll definitely look into switching the wood burner out to a coal burner. From what you guys are saying it seems like it'd be a little more cost effective. But after I get my furnace issue corrected.

Speaking of the furnace. I spoke with the supply house I found the Webster M34DK3 pump at and that pump supersedes the M34DA3 that I have. So, I bought it. Total cost for the new pump $82.73 and then I picked up the Dwyer Mark 2 Model 25 Manometer and when I get both. I'll be repairing my own furnace.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:54 pm

I'm On Fire wrote: Total cost for the new pump $82.73 and then I picked up the Dwyer Mark 2 Model 25 Manometer and when I get both. I'll be repairing my own furnace.


Sounds good like deal. Good luck, Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: Yanche On: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:47 pm

Nora (National Oilheat Research Alliance) publishes some good oil heat technician training manuals. See: http://www.nora-oilheat.org Follow the links to the "Education Center" and/or the online store. The "silver book" appears to be the latest version of the training. I've got a much older edition that was excellent and assume the current version is equally good. Also looks like there is a DVD version for a bargain price of $13. Anyone needing to service/repair their oil burner should consider buying the book or DVD.

A slide outline of the "silver book" is here: http://www.nora-oilheat.org/site20/uplo ... erbook.pdf
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:36 am

I'm On Fire wrote:The only difference I see with it is that it is 50 rpms faster than the old pump which was rated at 3400 rpm and that the input shaft from the motor to the pump is a bit different. Out of both differences the one I am really concerned with is the 50 rpm difference.The shaft I can modify to work and if not, I'll just find a motor to work with the new pump

There will be no operational difference as the pumps are over driven to begin with, you're pumping 3 GPH and burning at a rate of 1 GPH.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: HI! I'm new!!!

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:13 pm

Yeah, I actually spoke with both the supply house I bought the pump from and someone from Webster Fuel Pumps about the pump. They both said that the DK model is nearly identical to the DA model with some new updated components.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator