Interstate DOT Question

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: oros35 On: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:10 pm

RAYJAY wrote:I'm buying a dump trailer also, for PA anything over the 9,999 weight limit you need a class A license,
Jeff


This is not true. The weight is based on you Gross Combination Weight.
Class C = any combination or single under 26,000#
Class B = any single over 26,000# with a trailer limit of 10,000#
Class A = any combination or single over 26,000#
It is confusing the way it is written in the code books, but ask any DOT officer and this is the way it is interpreted.

Your license must match the registered Gross Vehicle/Combination Weight of the vehicle your driving.

I have a 14,000# trailer with a truck that has combination plates at 22,000#. This is perfectly legal with a class C license.
If I were commercial I would be required to have log books and a medical card since my trailer is over 10,000# and my combination is over 17,000#.
You can have a class A license without the airbrake endorsement. Anything over 26,000 requires a medical card.

I have been to several classes where the state police used my rig as an example for the proper way to register and be legal in PA.
oros35
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
Stove/Furnace Make: Smith & Anthony Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: #215 Hub Heater

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:53 pm

gaw wrote:Yanche, my opinion is that if the right man catches you with the trailer weighing more than 10,000 pounds you would not have the proper license to drive that combination. Since you only have the trailer registered for 9,999 are you just overloaded or would a cop be compelled to issue you another ticket because you exceeded the 10,000 pound limit for a class C license? That’s an interesting question and it may come down to the discretion of the cop. I heard from a PA motor carrier enforcement cop that one of the things they were busting guys on was driving dump trucks pulling a trailer carrying a backhoe. Many of these drivers only had class B license and the trailer with backhoe weighed more than 10,000 pounds so they legally needed to have a class A license to drive that combination.

I would advise keep legal on the truck weight and don’t let the trailer axles weigh more than 9,999 and you will be fine. If you do push the limits don’t draw attention to yourself like having a trailer hitch dragging on the ground and a pickup that looks as though it is aiming for the moon.


Let me understand this drivers license thing. The ratings on my Silverado diesel pickup are:

Max trailer weight = 15,500 lbs.
Gross Combined Weight Rating = 22,000 lbs.

but with a weight distributing hitch:
Max trailer weight = 13,000 lbs

So what kind of drivers license do I need if I'm pulling max load on properly sized equipment, i.e. trailer, hitch, hitch ball size, tires, etc?

gaw wrote:I would advise keep legal on the truck weight and don’t let the trailer axles weigh more than 9,999 and you will be fine. If you do push the limits don’t draw attention to yourself like having a trailer hitch dragging on the ground and a pickup that looks as though it is aiming for the moon.


Let me make my original weight question clearer. Suppose I have my trailer unhitched. I put 10,100 lbs on it, exceeding it's rated and licensed weight capacity. Now I hitch it up and using the load compensating hitch I transfer 101 lbs. to the pickup. If I understand how a load compensating hitch works, when my hitched up trailer axles when put on an axles by axle scale it would read 9,999 lbs weigh for the trailer. Am I missing something?
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:10 pm

I would go with the rating plate on the trailer or gross registered weight...
Gross max weight on trailer 15,500...
Includes the empty trailer weight of 2,500...
Max cargo weight 13,000...
Never exceed the rating plate or what the gross registered weight is...
If the trailer is on the scales all by itself that is what I would go by...
My trailer has a 3,500 axle but is registered for 2,950...
In MA you need brakes on the trailer over 3,000...
No brakes on the trailer...
No trailer inspection is necessary either...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove


Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: oros35 On: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:45 pm

Yanche wrote:Let me understand this drivers license thing. The ratings on my Silverado diesel pickup are:

Max trailer weight = 15,500 lbs.
Gross Combined Weight Rating = 22,000 lbs.

but with a weight distributing hitch:
Max trailer weight = 13,000 lbs

So what kind of drivers license do I need if I'm pulling max load on properly sized equipment, i.e. trailer, hitch, hitch ball size, tires, etc?

Let me make my original weight question clearer. Suppose I have my trailer unhitched. I put 10,100 lbs on it, exceeding it's rated and licensed weight capacity. Now I hitch it up and using the load compensating hitch I transfer 101 lbs. to the pickup. If I understand how a load compensating hitch works, when my hitched up trailer axles when put on an axles by axle scale it would read 9,999 lbs weigh for the trailer. Am I missing something?


I have the same truck you do with a 14,000# trailer

Your truck would have to have a Class 8 registration for GCW of 22,000# @ $405.00 per year if your trailer exceeds 10,000#
The maximum weight you can haul is ultamately based on the Per Axle weight. Each axle has a manufactures rating. If you get stopped, they will put a portable scale under each wheel. You must meet 2 criteria: under the limit for each axle per manufacture specs, and under the total Gross Combination Weight your registration allows. (weight is properly distributed, a distribution hitch helps to meet this requirement)
Your license will be required to be a Class C. Under 26,000# GCW

Now if your trailer registration is under 10,001 and you don't have the combination registration on the truck, they treat the trailer as independent and will ask you to unhook the trailer and they will weigh it seperately. This is because you do not have a Combination Registration on your truck. If you have a Combination Registration on your truck they will treat you as a combination load.

Its all about the registration you have on your truck. Your truck is probably a 9,200# registration by its self and up to 22,000# combination. You must have the combination plates to take credit for the allowable combination weight. Otherwise you are limited to a 10,000 trailer and will be weighed seperate since they are not legaly a combination load, you did not pay for that plate.

License is still Class C, under 26,000#
oros35
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
Stove/Furnace Make: Smith & Anthony Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: #215 Hub Heater

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:15 pm

If you are towing anything weighing 10,000# or more you need a CDL.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: SMITTY On: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:57 pm

In MA I'm pretty sure you don't need a CDL for anything without air brakes, or a GVWR over 26K operated commercially. If it's your own equipment under that GVWR & your not for hire, your all set. Every state has their own take on this.

As far as weight distributing hitches go, I was under the impression that you can add MUCH more weight to a trailer with them. For example, my Silverado's hitch says I can haul 8500 lbs. straight, or 13,500 lbs. with a weight distributing hitch. Now, if I put 11,000 lbs on a trailer that is rated for 10K ... it's still an 11K trailer no matter how it's hooked to your vehicle. I know in MA if they wanted to be a prick about it, they'd throw scales under each axle. Not sure if that hitch setup would actually remove weight from the trailer ..... I would think it's just pushing more of the tongue weight to the front axle of the tow vehicle.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: gaw On: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:46 am

coaledsweat wrote:If you are towing anything weighing 10,000# or more you need a CDL.

That is exactly how it is worded; combination greater than 26,000, trailer greater than 10,000 requires class A, so even with the weight transfer hitch the weight will magically reappear when you unhook the trailer.

Don’t forget the usual disclaimer; it is only illegal if you get caught and free advice is worth what you pay for it.
gaw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice from Schuylkill County

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: oros35 On: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:58 am

coaledsweat wrote:If you are towing anything weighing 10,000# or more you need a CDL.

This is not true. Call the PA DOT and ask.

It's worded funny, but the legal interpretation is a CDL is only required for 26,000# and up.
oros35
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
Stove/Furnace Make: Smith & Anthony Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: #215 Hub Heater

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: Yanche On: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:29 am

Well this discussion had sparked my interest in understanding the laws regarding using my pickup and trailer. My interest is in being legal when hauling coal, stone, mulch, etc. for my own use. It looks like the key to it all for the typical homeowner is keeping the trailer under 10,000 lbs.

Here's Maryland's driver license classifications:

MD_License_Codes.jpg
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The typical homeowner drivers license is class C and that restricts you to a trailer 10,000 lbs or less. Furthermore the 26,001 lbs restriction applied to the total combined weight, i.e. pickup plus trailer.

Tags on my trailer also restrict me to less than 10,000 lbs.


If I had a trailer that could haul more that 10,000 lbs. I would also need to get a DOT physical card. See quote from the MD motor vehicle web side:

Begin quote:

"Effective October 1, 2003, if you are a Maryland non-commercial driver operating a commercial motor vehicle in intrastate commerce (within the State of Maryland) and the vehicle weighs between 10,001 and 26,000 pounds, you are now required to hold a valid Federal Motor Carrier (DOT) physical card in your possession. If you are licensed prior to October 1, 2003, have a preexisting medical condition, and the onset was prior to 10/01/03, you will be exempt from this requirement for a 20-year period, provided your preexisting condition does not worsen. You are still required to maintain a DOT physical.

This new Maryland law, requires any non-commercial driver, operating a commercial motor vehicle that meets the conditions listed above, to obtain and to maintain a valid Federal Motor Carrier (DOT) physical card in order to remain qualified to operate a vehicle intrastate in Maryland.

If you do not hold a valid Federal Motor Carrier (DOT) physical card in your possession by October 1, 2003, you will no longer be qualified to operate the vehicle in the state of Maryland."

End Quote

My question about my load transferring hitch doesn't really help in carrying weight over 10,000 lbs. Because my tag classification isn't in the "combined" classification, i.e. towing vehicle and towed vehicle it's the exclusive weight of the trailer that matters. Bottom line keep the trailer weight under 10,000 lbs and use equipment properly rated. Requirements in your state should be similar.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:53 pm

I should also state that in MA we have the most unclear & confusing laws on EVERYTHING ... and we have redundant & overlapping laws on top of that! :roll: :x If your looking for a clear answer in MA, good luck to ya!

Just remember - when traveling in or through the state of MA, the laws are whatever the trooper or officer decides they are at that moment. Don't argue with them. Save it for the judge.

Bottom line? CHECK all lights! Check tire pressure! Make sure all your I's are dotted & T's crossed! DON'T GIVE THEM A REASON. If you give them a reason, your on your own ... unless you have a fat bankroll.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:01 pm

oros35 wrote:
coaledsweat wrote:If you are towing anything weighing 10,000# or more you need a CDL.

This is not true. Call the PA DOT and ask.

It's worded funny, but the legal interpretation is a CDL is only required for 26,000# and up.

That is for driving a truck. Towing a trailer more than 10K requires a CDL.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: coal berner On: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:17 pm

simply read the law for each state you plan on towing in or threw.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/driverLicens ... sses.shtml
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
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Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:47 pm

In MA any passenger vehicle and trailer up to 26,000 GVWR is good with just the regular license...

http://www.mass.gov/rmv/license/2diflic.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

Class D- Any single passenger vehicle or combination, except a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, or truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs., bus or school bus.

Here is the translation...
Class D- Any single passenger vehicle or combination under 26,001 lbs. GVWR...
with the following exceptions a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs.
a bus or a school bus.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: oros35 On: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:10 am

Anyone who tows a trailer - Towing seminar at Heinz Field 8/28/2010- Operation SOAR
For anyone that tows a trailer: All your questions answered by the SOAR team.
Seminar presented by the Pittsburgh Police, PA State Police, and Alleghney County.
This was passed onto me by a police friend of mine.


OPERATION:
Safe Operations Are your Responsibility


The Pittsburgh Bureau of Police, Pennsylvania State Police and the
Allegheny County District Attorney’s Office is pleased to announce:


PUBLIC SAFETY AWARENESS DAY
August 28, 2010 8:00am – 2:00pm
Lot 1 – Heinz Field at Art Rooney Ave and Gen. Robinson
(Signs will be posted throughout the Area)
Lunch and refreshments will be provided

This one day seminar was designed to educate the public with laws that pertain to Towed Vehicles, Commercial Vehicles, Licensing Requirements, Weight of Vehicles and much more. A Premier expert from Harrisburg will speak on “hours of service.” We will also have a presentation on CSA 2010 by a representative from FMCSA.

The seminar will be staffed by multiple Motor Carrier Enforcement Teams from throughout Allegheny County. These Officers will be on-site to assist the general public on proper safety procedures including how to load, tow and secure trailers of all sizes. We are encouraging anyone with a small towed trailer, landscape companies, owner operators, up to and including large trucking firms, to attend so that they may receive a better understanding on how to safely operate their vehicles on Pennsylvania roadways.

We encourage the public to bring their trailers to this event so safety Officers may provide hands on demonstrations on how to properly outfit their vehicle for safe operational transport. This highly trained TEAM of professionals will be able to answer any questions pertaining to the height and weight of a vehicle, proper hitch requirements, proper load securement to name a few and other commonly asked questions.

A weigh team will be available to weigh vehicles to ensure that they meet the axel weight, tongue weight and gross vehicle weight requirements. This will also alert drivers to the proper class of licensing necessary for the vehicle per the weight.
This event is NOT intended to enforce the law. This event is solely intended to educate the public on the proper rules of safe operation of vehicles on Pennsylvania roadways. In the days and weeks that follow this event an aggressive enforcement campaign will commence throughout Allegheny County.
oros35
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
Stove/Furnace Make: Smith & Anthony Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: #215 Hub Heater

Re: Interstate DOT Question

PostBy: japar On: Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:33 pm


http://www.mass.gov/rmv/license/2diflic.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Class D- Any single passenger vehicle or combination, except a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, or truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs., bus or school bus.
Here is the translation...
Class D- Any single passenger vehicle or combination under 26,001 lbs. GVWR...
with the following exceptions a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs.
a bus or a school bus. What is a single passenger vehical ? I got caught on the Mass Pike towing a trailer load of coal 20,000 lbs with my unibogg that only weights 4800 lbs . With the fines I got I could have heated my house with oil for 3 years and thats at $4 a gallon. It costs me $600 ayear just to register my trailer in mA$$ with a GVW of 20,000 lbs. I'am thinking of moving to PA and screw this money hungry state of mA$$achusettes
japar
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hearthmate
Stove/Furnace Make: Hearthmate
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