Buy American

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Buy American

PostBy: cokehead On: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:13 am

Like everyone else I'm trying to figure out what went wrong with our economy and what the solution is. At the heart of the matter is WE ALL BUY, myself included, products made elsewhere. I don't have hard statistics but if you where to look at what was in our stores say in 1950, I would be willing to bet that 95% was from an American factory or farm. I have been looking at where things come from lately. Pencils to small appliances.......most of it is from China. Malaysia, Brazil, Taiwan, Pakistan, Vietnam, Japan, Mexico, Canada, and others are common for manufactured goods. King crab comes from Russia, grapes come from Chile, canned oranges come from China, Shrimp come from Thailand......Then there is the oil! Regulation has made it unprofitable to drill for our own oil We even import coal from South America! We are sending billions of dollars out of our country which benefits foreign workers over our own. Part of it is we all look for the good price. Part of it is retailers trying to maximize profits by substituting a cheaper foreign product on the self effectively eliminating the choice of buying American.

Everything would be great if foreign countries bought the same dollar amount from us but they don't. Unless we start buying our own stuff, the economic conditions in this country are only going to get worse. In order to become wealthy we have to make and sell stuff. We are consuming more than we make as a nation. It is unsustainable; I don't care how much stimulus (BORROWED MONEY THAT HAS TO BE PAID BACK!) is thrown into the system. We don't have trickle down, we have trickle out. Our economic ship is sinking and if we don't address the root cause nothing is going to change. BUY AMERICAN!
cokehead
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Locke, Godin, Tarm in da works
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Re: Buy American

PostBy: europachris On: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:46 pm

I am all for a "world economy". With today's high speed, cost efficient transportation, goods from around the world are accessible to us at prices never before imagined. In the 1950's, ships from overseas had to have the cargo unloaded by hand with nets and cranes. Container ships didn't exist. In a sense, today's world has shrunk down to the comparative scale of the USA in the 1950s. Coast to coast trucking was in it's infancy back then - today it's country-to-country shipping.

However, the issue is that we don't have a level playing field - unfair labor practices, government subsidies, "dumping" of goods below market prices, and even our own greed all conspire to cause jobs to exit our country. In many cases, lack of investment and the unions forced companies to close or move operations to remain competitive. But the cost of goods from low cost countries make it almost impossible to make the same product here and have it sell for anywhere near as cheap. Much of the product from overseas is junk, but people just see the low price. The people who bitch the loudest about the Chinese are the same ones buying everything at Wal-Mart.

Our government has dug this country into a hole so deep that I don't know how we're going to get out of it. I think most people understand the problem at least on some level, but I think the cure is so drastic that nobody has the stomach for it.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
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Re: Buy American

PostBy: Cap On: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:49 pm

The USA was great in the 50's manufacturing & farming every day needs. But parts of the world such as China, India, Indonesia & other highly populated countries weren't living at our standards. Parts of these countries still are not at our standards. But now that they have a taste and have developed the ability to manufacture, the USA will never be able to compete again for common everyday needs. They just have more people willing to work at low wages. BUT we could be leaders once again in new & high technology. This is the only way we can compete once again. The USA has the best universities and the smartest minds. We need to develop new technology to be great once again.
Cap
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator


Re: Buy American

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:00 pm

I know this will open a can of worms and possibly put the sign on the side of my house to work "This house guarded by a grumpy old man with a shotgun 3 nights a week,you guess the nights"This Country has been talking for so long about having the best Universities & the smartest minds in the World--I think we've been brainwashed to believe it---I for one question it---coming out of highschool,most kids spend thier freshman yr learning what they should have in high school---I've got a few professor friends at Syracuse Univ, Cornell Univ & Univ of Penna & for the most part they feel like baby sitters/mental health workers---we have a generation of young men & woman that have no concept of work,dedication,or going that extra yard---until the family unit in the good old USA gets back to being just that,I believe in my heart that we are doomed to whatever comes down the pike---High tech competion w/ Japan,I don't see it anywhere in the near future--our over rated professionals are unfortunatly,right up there w/ our politicians,me,me,me--money,money,money---I know that this Country has the potential to get back as a fore-runner,but we can'y be blameing those other Countries for what they're doing,but ourselves for what we are NOT doing---maybe,we've just become too friggin GREEDY :( Don't shoot m,I'm only the messenger :cry:
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Buy American

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:12 pm

Cap wrote:The USA has the best universities and the smartest minds. We need to develop new technology to be great once again.

The American university system is still the best in the world but it's being challenged by several countries. In the middle east the oil wealth is creating a world class technical university in Dubai. It's staffed by the worlds best professors, recruited with very high salaries and research freedoms. In a few decades they will have their own highly educated professors.

In China, specifically Hong Kong, word class universities are on the leading edge of DNA research. Since there is no political opposition to stem cell use, researchers can do experiments that would not even be proposed by American universities. Look for major medical treatment advances coming from the Chinese in future decades.

America's technical high school education is pathetic. Even advance placement (AP) students are no match for students educated in foreign countries. Take any high school science or technical fair you will find the winners are predominately students with foreign parents. Parents that drive education achievement as the number one priority for their children. Sometimes to the point of being abusive.

The trend is clear, the USA and other western countries have major challenges ahead.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Buy American

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:56 pm

If your kid screws up real,real bad & you give him a boot in the butt--according to too many,that is being abusive :( I think our situation speaks for itself---I think what's abusive,is watching my grandkids getting the legacy they are being given :( I don't have any iron clad answers,but,I know it's WE that have to make changes and hopefully some of those changes will happen this Nov. :|
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Buy American

PostBy: nortcan On: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:17 pm

cokehead, permit me to tell you that:you are in United States of America, you are not America. Canada is part of America as USA. The competition doesn't come from close countries but from Asiatic countries. A lot of peoples have nice theories to solve the economic problems in America and are very proud driving asiatic vehicules. If we dont't do it who will?
A nice video from Henry Repeating rifles shows a man throwing out his house everything not coming from America. He ends with only his Henri rifle made in USA.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
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Re: Buy American

PostBy: cokehead On: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:36 pm

nortcan wrote:cokehead, permit me to tell you that:you are in United States of America, you are not America. Canada is part of America as USA. The competition doesn't come from close countries but from Asiatic countries. A lot of peoples have nice theories to solve the economic problems in America and are very proud driving asiatic vehicules. If we dont't do it who will?
A nice video from Henry Repeating rifles shows a man throwing out his house everything not coming from America. He ends with only his Henri rifle made in USA.


I see you point about "American". Those of us living in the USA use the word American as if it where interchangeable with the term "United States citizen". I see that from a Canadian's perspective that just isn't right and now that you brought it to my attention I will be try to be more precise.

I used to live in New Hampshire from 1979 to 1981. During that time the US dollar was strong against the Canadian currency. What happened was Canadian lumber and pulp was a bargain and the logging industry in New Hampshire fell on hard times. You couldn't buy a job then. A potential employer told me flat out that they have experienced people laid off and was in no position to hire me. I ended up going back to Connecticut. It was economic survival.

My point was exchange rates effect the ebb and flow of jobs across borders. http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=USDC ... =undefined

http://dataweb.usitc.gov/scripts/cy_m3_run.asp

Canada is America's.........I mean the United States of America's largest trading partner. The trade imbalance is no where near as severe as the one with China. The imbalance is in Canada's favor at the moment but the books have to balance somehow eventually. Either wages in the US have to fall, productivity rise, or the US dollars value must fall in relation to Canada's or some combination of those events to find a sustainable balance. Canada's dollar floats in the world markets which should help to correct the trade imbalances over time.

I'm not Canada bashing. I have never met a Canadian I didn't like. I hope you won't take what I say in a bad way. I am saying that the USA is in decline economically and as a mater of survival we have to figure out how to fix it. Canada already buys more from the USA than any other nation.

The trade imbalance with China is much more severe and a big part of it is the fact that China doesn't let it's currency float which gives them unfair pricing advantages in markets they export to. They just let their exchange rate adjust some but they still have an unfair situation that needs to be addressed. They export more to the USA than Canada but they buy far less. That is why I say Canada is the USA's largest trading partner. I think the average Canadian citizen is more aware of this than the average person in the USA.

My first car was a 1962 CJ-5 Jeep. Then a 1972 Chevy Blazer...Datsun pick-up...Dodge Dart...VW Camper Van...Dodge pickup 4x2...Ford F-150 4x4 (Made in Canada)...another of the same...and my present vehicle is a Honda Element and I have hauled coal in it. I bought it in 2004. I believe it was made in Ohio. The transmission is the only major component that came from Japan. The Element is the only new vehicle I ever bought. Makes look like a hypocrite but if you look at where the components come from in many US assembled vehicles, not so much.

I have a Winchester Model of 1873 in 44-40. Winchester bought the patent rights from Henry way back. I don't believe the current Henry rifles have a direct linage to the original Henry back in the 1860's. That doesn't make them bad, just drivel on my part.
cokehead
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Locke, Godin, Tarm in da works
Stove/Furnace Model: Warm Morning 617-A, 3721, 502

Re: Buy American

PostBy: nortcan On: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:36 am

Cokehead, my comments were not to offend you or other persons from USA. You cannot imagine all the respect I have for your Country and American people. Sorry for what happens for your job with Domptar but it was about the same on our side of the border. Our governments also blamed the USA for protectionism ...in the lumber industries...Companys, governements tell what they want...Anyway, now in Canada. the wood and paper industry is at the lowest side.
I bought a Winchester Wildcat 22, in 2007. For me Winchester= made in America. Deception it was from Russia. I never had a bolt action so hard to work with. The same year, I boughr a Henry 22 standard model. WOW. the lever action is very fun and smooth...2 weeks ago,I sold it and the next day I bought an other Henry, a Golden Boy model. So nice and as smooth as the first one. I read a lot of forums and almost all Henry's owners are very satisfied with their Henry rifles. And one other important thing, very rare today, the president of the Henry company answers himself the e-mail from custommers to be sure you are a satisfied custommer. They are made in USA, by American workers. I think Henry still a nice example of what can be done to help USA and America to protect our's heritages and jobs.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Buy American

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:14 pm

I bought American today. :D

Mossberg 500

Image
jpete
 
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Re: Buy American

PostBy: cokehead On: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:21 pm

jpete wrote:I bought American today. :D

Mossberg 500

Image


That's what I'm talkin' bout. Thanks jpete for doing your part to keepin out economy strong. No Italian shotgun for you!
cokehead
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Locke, Godin, Tarm in da works
Stove/Furnace Model: Warm Morning 617-A, 3721, 502

Re: Buy American

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:16 pm

The title of this thread is "Buy American"

There was a time when that idea would have been laughed at because except for some very high end things and outright cheap junk we already had the best of everything. Why was that? What made American goods not just better but cheaper than foreign manufactures. I think the answer is innovation.

Reading history I think it is too easy to think certain leaders are responsible for all the great changes in the world. My own belief is that this is rubbish and that it was and is technology that is the great motivator of change. Alexander conquered the known world in 300 BC but he could not have done it without a prior revolution in agriculture. You can't have an army without feeding them.

It was the explosion of technology and innovation in this country starting in the early 1800s that resulted in the power and prosperity of this country. It was accomplished primarily by relatively uneducated men. Names like Whitney, Edison, Ford, McCormick, Firestone, you know, but there were thousands of others just as important. There must have been something in the air(figuratively) that fostered this.

If we wish to grow a great crop of corn it would be well to provide the conditions under which corn grows best. If we wish to create prosperity then we must foster the conditions under which prosperity grows, and a look back at our history makes it very clear what those conditions are. Minimal government, low taxes, no Federal Reserve, maximum freedom to go where your inclinations and talents lead you.

A Russian factory worker once said "they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work". Our future ?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
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Re: Buy American

PostBy: JohnMck On: Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:37 am

Cap wrote:The USA was great in the 50's manufacturing & farming every day needs. But parts of the world such as China, India, Indonesia & other highly populated countries weren't living at our standards. Parts of these countries still are not at our standards. But now that they have a taste and have developed the ability to manufacture, the USA will never be able to compete again for common everyday needs. They just have more people willing to work at low wages. BUT we could be leaders once again in new & high technology. This is the only way we can compete once again. The USA has the best universities and the smartest minds. We need to develop new technology to be great once again.



Historically, before WW II, the US was a largely agricultural country. We mechanized for the war. The main industrial competition was in Europe and Japan. After the war these industrial areas had all been leveled, thereby destroying any industrial competition for at least a decade. This allowed for the great industrial economy we enjoyed int he 50's and early 60's.
Now, with NAFTA, we cannot compete, and our high paying, industrial jobs continue to leave.
JohnMck
 

Re: Buy American

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:11 am

I could be wrong here but I believe that the U.S. helped to rebuild many of these countries, allies & former foes alike. I don`t think so many in other countries are so willing to work for lower wages but instead don`t have any other choice. Again not sure but I wouldn`t think there are many if any other countries that house, feed, clothe & provide medical care for those that choose to do nothing. I also think that the ratio of super wealthy to population would be a lot less, perhaps those foreign businesses are also willing to operate at a much lower profit margin, they could even run without the huge amount of upper management that somehow has become the norm here. If you just look at the so called developed nations as American workers we don`t fare as well as you may think in terms of hours worked & vacation time & standard of living.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 75 in garage
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
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Re: Buy American

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:55 am

I think one of the primary problems is people in the US want junk, that's not to say China can't produce quality products. What they can do really well is mass produce really cheap products. I often use the example of the lawnmower, your average consumer walks into Wal Mart and sees the $100 lawnmower and will choose that instead of the $500 model from the lawnmower shop that will last him/her for the rest of their lives. We live in a time where quality no longer really matters for a lot of products, people want cheap fast and instant gratification.

If you want to buy some of the greatest products the world has to offer you most certainly can get many that are made in the USA but be prepared to pay for them. They are not going to be cheap.

One trend I see a lot is success of American products being their downfall. I've seen this in two things I've been interested in the past, bikes and camping equipment. 25 years ago there was a huge boom for BMX bikes, they were expensive. $400 or $500 per bike and that was a lot of money for a bike then. This industry was dominated by US companies. What happened was many of these companies started marketing cheaper bikes made overseas relying on their name to sell them to the general public. They weren't bad bikes but they certainly weren't of the same build and quality of the top of the line models made here.
Richard S.
 
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