States leaving the union in our lifetime?

Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: smokeyCityTeacher On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:14 am

freetown fred wrote:Soooo,do we refrain from being the United States & become just The States----I don't see that working :( what is it??cut & run--or get out there in Nov. & do the best we can?


I was postulating an endgame scenario thirty years downline
not suggesting we rise in revolt and separate this year
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:59 am

freetown fred wrote:Soooo,do we refrain from being the United States & become just The States----I don't see that working :( what is it??cut & run--or get out there in Nov. & do the best we can?


Good morning Fred,

I don't want to see that either and it defiantly would be hard and require a change to the nation’s mindset.
Cut and run is not an option to me; I’m already out there doing the best I can to change the direction this country is moving and I encourage everyone to join me. Lisa
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:28 am

jeromemsn wrote:I guess every state could/should succeed. Hurray everybody is happy.........there I got real. Now who is going to pay for all the legislators that will right all of the new laws for all the new little countries, or will the new little countries just keep the currant laws and end up being small little U.S. law following countries.

I say go for it and a big win for the little guy and the constitution of the "United States"


Yes, every state could succeed; but more likely several states would join together to form new Unions as someone suggested in a previous post. As for the pay for the new legislators, do you realize that the original Congress received no pay for their service. They did it as a service to the populace. In the beginning the Congress was only in session for less than a month. Then everyone went home to their day jobs. Only later did it become a quagmire and a way to become wealthy. With the smaller work load at state level I’d expect that it would return to what it was in the beginning.

In fact, that’s my point - we should return the United States to the foundations upon which it was built. That means strong State governments and a weaker Federal Government with specifically delineated responsibilities. We can accomplish this without dissolving the country; just watch on NOV 2. Lisa
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:09 pm

yep,it always amazed me that some fat-arse sitting behind a desk in Albany or DC could have a clue about what we need at a Town level :(---smokey city,I have that postulating problem too--just enlarged though & PSA's are within normal range :shock: :lol:
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:45 pm

Yep I hope change is coming in Nov. We all bitched before the last change, now we have had 2 years of change, time for another change. "Change" does not = change, it +getting off track so we can still do any damn thing we want. I think we should go back to a time that was simpler for the Government and everyone else. Back to the days of horse and buggy, witch burning,no vote for women, no drinking, and hell yes no paying for "any" government workers! Now that would be a great society indeed.
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:04 pm

jeromemsn wrote:Yep I hope change is coming in Nov. We all bitched before the last change, now we have had 2 years of change, time for another change. "Change" does not = change, it +getting off track so we can still do any damn thing we want. I think we should go back to a time that was simpler for the Government and everyone else. Back to the days of horse and buggy, witch burning,no vote for women, no drinking, and hell yes no paying for "any" government workers! Now that would be a great society indeed.


You left out slavery. Is that because the government is hell bent on re-establishing serfdom?
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:00 pm

Slavery, serfdom, thats what we have now. Go look at your bosses car and house, what does he drive and live in? Same type of car and house you do? I don't think so. Why does he get paid so much when you get paid so little and have to pay for health care and other things on top of the crappy pay you get and I bet your boss can't even do what you do. Isn't that slaver and serfdom?
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: Duengeon master On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:23 pm

jeromemsn wrote:Slavery, serfdom, thats what we have now. Go look at your bosses car and house, what does he drive and live in? Same type of car and house you do? I don't think so. Why does he get paid so much when you get paid so little and have to pay for health care and other things on top of the crappy pay you get and I bet your boss can't even do what you do. Isn't that slaver and serfdom?

All you have to do is work 20 hrs a day, drive a piece of *censored* car, spend YOUR own money buying parts that don't fit until you finally get it right, you are at home working when your friends are out partying, failure after costly failure (spending your OWN money until your wife is ready to divorce you) then after busting your ass, you finally get it right and you invent the next greatest gadget that everyone HAS to have then you can tell your boss to go to hell and put YOUR name on the building. IT'S NOT GREED WHEN YOU EARNED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get off your ass and work for it. You are not Paris Hilton and neither am I. You start at the bottom and work your way up. If you bust your ass you will achieve. If you cry and whine all the time, you will stay at the bottom. That is reality. TFB if u can't handle that. Rich
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:29 pm

Well said Rich. You forgot the part about the boss spending years and mucho bucks attending schools. That person has earned his money in a different way and is for the most part entitled to every penny. This is still American, college is available to anyone who wants to put in the time and effort. Yeah, you may have to borrow the money but it's an advestment. The choice is yours at least for a little way longer. Lisa
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: Duengeon master On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:50 pm

lowfog01 wrote:Well said Rich. You forgot the part about the boss spending years and mucho bucks attending schools. That person has earned his money in a different way and is for the most part entitled to every penny. This is still American, college is available to anyone who wants to put in the time and effort. Yeah, you may have to borrow the money but it's an advestment. The choice is yours at least for a little way longer. Lisa
My ex boss Scott #$%^&* did just what I said in my post. He EARNED everything he has. Good for him! I have seen it with my own eyes what hard work can achieve. Scott has 14 patents on a machine that he invented. I was doing 6 week tours in Oklahoma City and Chula Vista, Ca. that's why I don't do that work anymore. I have no personal grudges against him for that. I wish him good luck.
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:55 pm

jeromemsn wrote:Slavery, serfdom, thats what we have now. Go look at your bosses car and house, what does he drive and live in? Same type of car and house you do? I don't think so. Why does he get paid so much when you get paid so little and have to pay for health care and other things on top of the crappy pay you get and I bet your boss can't even do what you do. Isn't that slaver and serfdom?


Methinks you ought learn the definition of "serfdom".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom

The usual serf (not including slaves or cottars) paid his fees and taxes in the form of seasonally appropriate labour. Usually a portion of the week was devoted to plowing his lord's fields (demesne), harvesting crops, digging ditches, repairing fences, and often working in the manor house. The lord’s demesne included more than just fields: it included all grazing rights, forest produce (nuts, fruits, timber, and forest animals) and fish from the stream; the lord had exclusive rights to these things. The rest of the serf’s time was devoted to tending his or her own fields, crops and animals in order to provide for his or her family


Hmm...working a portion of your week to pay your lord and protector? Does that sound like your boss? Or the Federal government?

The lord has rights to everything. Geez, does that sound like Kelo v New London?

Stop engaging in class envy. Your boss isn't your enemy. The Federal government is.
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:57 pm

jeromemsn wrote:Slavery, serfdom, thats what we have now. Go look at your bosses car and house, what does he drive and live in? Same type of car and house you do? I don't think so. Why does he get paid so much when you get paid so little and have to pay for health care and other things on top of the crappy pay you get and I bet your boss can't even do what you do. Isn't that slaver and serfdom?


I know having a lousy job with poor pay can be disheartening, but unlike a slave or serf we can change things. Michigan may not be the best place to be right now, but if you can find work that you enjoy then low pay is a lot less onerous. A truly free market will allow you to rise as far as your wants, and talents, and energy, will take you. Many of us believe that the cold dead hand of government that not only stifles ambition,but actively encourages sloth and waste is the major problem of our time.

To get back to the theme of this thread, I believe that states will not secede, but that politicians from those states that best cope with today's problems will be the future leaders of the country. New Jersey and Texas come to mind. I am sure there are others. The worse things become, the more support courageous men will have, to do what has to be done.
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:14 am

Hmmm, I'm 52 and have been retired for 2 years now. House paid, no credit cards, no car payments, just electric, gas, cable, and taxes. I still have just about a 100 people that work for me and they all drive better cars, own bigger houses and have the same benefits as I do. We have so far put 22 of there children through collage. I never believed that just because the company was in my name that it meant I had to make the workers have less than I. Oh and I do not draw any money from the company since my retirement.

Now back to reshaping how the country looks.
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:34 am

You understand that until we as a society stop with the grandious concept of he who dies w/ the most toys wins,none of this discussion amounts to a hill of beans :( Remember,we are the ones that have let all this crap get to the point it is.It strikes this old guy that we as a people have as much trouble taking responsibility as any of our dirt-bag politicians--I mean,REALLY,ain't we all just GRANDE??? I think not :shock:
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Re: States leaving the union in our lifetime?

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:13 am

Oh and forgot to say My return for last year included a check to the government of just over 14 grand.
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