get used to bailouts

Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:32 pm

jeromemsn wrote:Hmmm "Smokeycityteacher" started this subject but for some reason you think I'm talking to you "Lowfog01" Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm. My post was actually before any of your posts but you still say I'm talking to you, hmmmmmmmmmm. Like I said I make statements.


While you did not refer to Lisa in particular in your statements, if those statements refer to a class of people that fit the parameters of those statements, then I believe you are speaking to them or of them.

If I say I hate people with blue eyes, then I should not be surprised if someone with blue eyes takes umbrage at that statement.
franco b
 
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Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:19 pm

jeromemsn wrote:Hmmm "Smokeycityteacher" started this subject but for some reason you think I'm talking to you "Lowfog01" Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm. My post was actually before any of your posts but you still say I'm talking to you, hmmmmmmmmmm. Like I said I make statements.



News Flash ! When you make a post you are talking to anyone who happens by to read it at that time or whenever. They may or may not chose to reply. That's the way it works. That's why the words and the way they are used matter. Wait, I've heard that before, oh yeah, your boy Obama back on campaign - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMcht-EW6I . How quickly he forgot that small detail. It is my opinion that your choice of words painted an entire segment of Americans in a negative light. No matter, Samhill is right, we have drifted from the topic. I'm out. Have a good evening. Lisa
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Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: smokeyCityTeacher On: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:21 am

Update - now a $126B bailout is in the works to bail out union pension funds.

Also - did you know that Fanny & Freddy have a credit line with the Feds so that every time they need another cash infusion they don't need to consult congress, the news media or those pesky voters.

Soon all the parties bailed out last year will have their hand out again saying the economy has not improved and we need help again.

Just for fun - can anyone tell me how many times Obama has said "No More Bailouts" ?

I guess, like Clinton, it depends on your definition of "bailout".
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Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:40 am

Obama, I would guess has still said no more bailouts a lot less than Bush & Co. had said the economy is fundalmentaly sound. Don`t forget it was Bush that started the bailout parade, I guess it was good then but as soon as hes gone its bad, the bottom line is what would have happened if every one that recieved a bailout would have instead have been allowed to fail. Would we have been better off or not, would it have taken us into a depression or not?
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Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:36 pm

samhill wrote:the bottom line is what would have happened if every one that recieved a bailout would have instead have been allowed to fail. Would we have been better off or not, would it have taken us into a depression or not?


Yes we would have been better off, and yes we would have a depression similar to the Volcker depression years, but when that depression ended we would be stronger than ever. Actually I think Carter got a bad rap since he too inherited a lousy situation From Johnson, Nixon,and Ford.

I don't understand your constant defense of Obama by citing Bush. Obama is the guy driving the bus now. He was elected because a majority felt that Bush was doing a bad job. By continuing bad policy he just makes things worse. Our present woes are the culmination of bad policy going back to Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter,Clinton, and both Bushes. The idea that prosperity can be created by shuffling paper and government fiat is just wrong. You have to actually produce something other than more government.
franco b
 
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Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: samhill On: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:37 pm

I only talk about Bush simply because he was there last & to a very large degree led us into this mess. If you read a lot of my posts I prefer to go back decades & fault both parties, remembering that congress writes the laws & the Pres. simply signs or vetos it, both parties are controlled by lobbyists IMO, we now have the best government that money can & has bought. Even the S.C. has given big business to the right to buy any politician or election they want, I`m sure that cost them a lot but in the long run it may just turn out to be cheaper, just buy the ones they want & don`t even have to contribute to those they don`t. They always had to spread funds out to everyone a bit just to make sure someone that didn`t owe them some how went & won an election.
I`m also not very sure at all about being better off if we have a depression, don`t forget that this would be a global depression & a obsene amount of this country is already owned by foreigners, most of which don`t like America or Americans at all, just our money. All so don`t forget it always takes longer to climb out of a recession or depression than it does to fall into one & I believe that with every one we loose jobs that will never come back yet it seems that many seem to sit & wait for something thats gone than to move on. Its a hard choice to make, perhaps easier for me in the rust belt recession because I knew my plant was destroyed & wasn`t coming back.
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Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:47 pm

Nobody wants a depression, but it will take some mighty bad times to get the support for the things that have to be done.

Every economist that I have heard or read says we are in a no win situation. Delaying things just makes it harder when it comes time to pay the piper. That delay has gone on for 50 years and the day of reckoning is approaching.

Speaking of depression I lived through the last one in the 30s. It was not like the reports you read of it that highlight the worst cases. There was 25% unemployment versus today's 17% or so and that unemployment was concentrated in pockets that made it seem worse than it was. If you wanted to buy something you waited and saved for it and it gave more pleasure for having waited. Housing sold for a lot lower multiple of wages. Cars were cheap. No insurance required. A radio was a major purchase. Fuel oil was 8 cents a gallon. Very few had telephones and if you picked up the handset the operator said "Number Please."I think I was about 9 or 10 before I made my first phone call. I also had my first sailboat then; took a years worth of delivering papers,about $100. At the age of 9 I worked from 6 in the morning to 6 at night at the local rowboat rental station for $1 per day and glad to get it. A lot of people went fishing for food as well as for some sport. The docks and shores were full of fishermen. I worked for a drugstore delivering prescriptions for $3 a week, every day after school and all day Sat. I delivered Western Union telegrams and was surprised to find that the best tips came from the poorest neighborhoods. Work was there if you were willing to work. None of these things are open to kids today. That's part of the reason we could get along with half the police and half the crime. And you did not smart mouth a cop. You wore a dress shirt and a tie in school, class size was much higher than today,but the teachers were mostly competent which made up for it. The curriculum was just as dopey as today in some ways but in others it was far better. You learned the three Rs and we were introduced to Shakespeare in grammar school. All in all it was a better time in many ways. You just did not expect as much and that is what you got. Magazines like Popular Mechanics were chock full of things you could make or repair, not a catalog of things to buy like today.

Since that time there has been enormous increases in productivity owing to modern machines and electronics. In my opinion that productivity has been stolen, primarily by a bloated government.

If and when the collapse occurs the return to sanity will be well worth the hardship. To re-learn what is important in life and what is illusion.
franco b
 
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Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:22 am

I can`t dissagree with most of that post, I`m a bit younger than you so didn`t get to witness or live those times. My fear now is that with the world turmoil as it is the result of a depression would be far more violent, back then most didn`t have a lot to begin with, sure there were millionaires but not many in-be-tweeners & most if not all had actually worked for what they did have. There were no generations that had never actually worked & earned their own keep, people had respect for one another & human life, were willing to wait & save for what they needed now no one even waits for what they think they need. I believe different times & mentality would bring different results, we as a nation now have very little manufacturing & instead prefer to buy the cheap crap that advertisers convince us we can`t do without, then when it doesn`t work or breaks soon after we complain & go out to buy the next piece of crap, a never ending cycle except that other countries are cashing in.
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Re: get used to bailouts

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:50 pm

samhill wrote:My fear now is that with the world turmoil as it is the result of a depression would be far more violent,


Agreed, there are far more that think they are entitled now to live off the efforts of others.

Regarding prior times of prosperity: You have heard of the roaring twenties. As I was growing up the evidence of a prior wealthier civilization was all around me. Boarded up houses ,especially large mansions on the waterfront. The local boathouse was huge. It was in the shape of an enormous Chinese pagoda. It had been a dance pavilion back in the twenties where excursion boats brought in revelers to enjoy themselves. Now it was storage for 100 foot yachts that would never see the water again. I felt very much like the people in those films that survived an atomic Armageddon and witnessed the ruin of a civilization all around them. Talking to a friend who was 40 years my senior he described to me how he and his friends while playing golf would discuss when to get out of the market, whether to wait till their portfolio was worth a million or to settle for a bit less. They settled for a lot less.

Then as now our primary need was for food, clothing, and shelter. With the exception of clothing the others were much much cheaper, and wives rarely worked outside the home. A house could easily be bought by anyone with a reasonably good job and the mortgage was for 10 years or less instead of 30.

So with all the progress the most important basic needs have become out of reach for more and more as our government creates chaos in what was a healthy free market. As you rightly point out the gimcracks and junk can be bought for almost nothing. Hard to enjoy without a roof overhead.
franco b
 
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