what's this "good luck with that bill" BS?

what's this "good luck with that bill" BS?

PostBy: castiron On: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:41 pm

Whoever put that "if you fuel with wood, propane or wood, good luck with that bill" post should remove the word "wood". Those who scrounge for wood pay far less (about "zero") to heat than do those who use coal or natural gas. Granted, coal is a little cheaper than is natural gas but not wood when you scrounge and really, wood comes very close even when you have to buy it.....
castiron
 

PostBy: e.alleg On: Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:50 am

Not if you value your time it isn't cheap at all. Take the time you spend gathering and preparing a season's worth of wood and even at minimum wage you could have probably bought 20 ton of coal. That being said I used to gather all my wood for nothing except gas, oil, and chains. It was rewarding for me because I was broke and I enjoyed the work. I would rather do other things now.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: what's this "good luck with that bill" BS?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:46 am

[dead link removed]

Check it out for yourself, granted for those members that live out of the area the price difference dwindles. The base price for coal is what my local customers are paying in bulk delivered. :) That calculator FYI is based on this U.S. Department of Energy spreadsheet.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls

Even if you're scrounging it's still costing you something even besides the time. Gas for both truck and saw, chains, Splitter rental?
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite


PostBy: Charlie Z On: Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:16 am

I'm 4 long weekend days into bucking, splitting, and stacking about 5 cords of 'free' fruit wood (trunks delivered by the farmer, which saved a ton of time and work). Not finished.

I'll have to move those 11 ton of wood again when they season to the woodshed, then again into the house. Bars, chains, splitter, sharpening. It's good exercise, but there is nothing 'free' about it.

NG is more than 2x the cost of coal. Here's the breakdown per therm (MBTU) for my area. Wood is listed @ $175/cord, coal @ $165/ton:

Wood $13.71
Coal $9.00
Elec $50.69
Oil $21.98
NG $18.75
LP $28.46

With coal only costing ~$560 for our heat a season, I can't afford 'free'.
Last edited by Charlie Z on Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Charlie Z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Coalbrookdale
Stove/Furnace Model: Darby

PostBy: CoalBin On: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:39 am

Charlie Z - $165 / ton ?
CoalBin
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: DVC-500

PostBy: Charlie Z On: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:47 pm

I drive to NEPA and get it for $125. $100 RT auto expense factored in.
Charlie Z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Coalbrookdale
Stove/Furnace Model: Darby

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:13 pm

I burned wood for 20 years, I scrounged whenever I could, burned everything I could find, lots of old lumber from renovations my contractor friend did, any time I did work on the house everything burnable went into the stoves. I've done my share of splitting wood both by hand and with a log splitter. Last year I burned 6 cords, about average. When the price of a cord delivered went up to $170 this year I bought the Harman Mark I.

I still burn wood in the Fischer insert, 2 cords this year. The main source of heat has been the Harman, once I got good coal that would burn, and got the draft set correctly. I still like burning wood, esp. in the insert, but for the quality of heat and for the money, I'm glad I switched to coal.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:15 pm

Charlie Z wrote:I drive to NEPA and get it for $125. $100 RT auto expense factored in.


I posted this in the cost for a ton thread---I bought 2 tons this year for $260 each delivered. Live and Learn!
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:22 am

Depending on what you burn wood in, it can be more expensive than coal, even if you get the wood for 'free'.

The expense of dealing with creosote, chimney cleaning, the bugs, dirt and snow tracked in every few hours to feed a wood stove. UGH! Repainting the rooms from the smoke yellowing, the constant smell of a wood fire. double UGH. Been there, done that. for many years.

In my outside boiler, the size of a wood fire to create enough heat is a pile of wood about like a wheelbarrow full. This lasts about 2-3 hours, If I fill the boiler's firebox [about 2-3 wheelbarrow loads] and damp down the air to the fire, then there is the smoke and creosote issue. This quantity will burn 6-7 hours. And the firet temperature fluctuates wildly, causing boil-overs or heat dumping.

With coal, I just loaded it up with 150# or so of coal, and left it alone for 10-12 hours, depending on how cold is was. MUCH easier than wood.

I have acres of free wood on my farm, it is so time consuming to cut, split and stack that I am better off paying for coal. I give away the wood usually.
I don't burn anything in the house, all burning is in the outside boiler in it's own 14'x20' building. I doubt if I'll ever burn in my house again.

So if I were to pay for good wood, oak, ash, maple etc split, and stacked, I'd be paying 2x or 3x as much as for coal. And I'd have to tend the fire every few hours.

I have this year converted my boiler from coal hand-feed to coal stoker-feed. This is even better, I fill the stoker's hopper once every day or two, and empty the ash pan twice a day. Done, thermostaticly controled, burns less 'cause it won't burn extra unless the aquastat calls for heat, it coasts during warm sunny days. A major improvement.

This summer I'm revamping my coal bin, and putting in 25-40 tons of coal, this way next winter will be mild or I will be prepared for whatever Mother Nature throws at us.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: e.alleg On: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:28 am

"...this way next winter will be mild..." haha isn't that always how it works.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

PostBy: Rex On: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:18 pm

e.alleg wrote:"...this way next winter will be mild..." haha isn't that always how it works.


lol... Yeah we just purchase our first coal stove last week. I'll guess we will be in for a mild winter also. Just like when I FINALLY got the ok from the wife to purchase the snow blower. Well, bet you can guess the kind of winter that turned out to be :oops:
Rex
 
Stove/Furnace Make: D.S. Machine
Stove/Furnace Model: Circulator 1500

PostBy: JerseyCoal On: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:06 pm

Don't worry, sooner or later it'll all come in quite handy! Keep the long term in mind.
JerseyCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Franco Belge model 10.1475

PostBy: Charlie Z On: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:36 am

Woodn'Coal: that's about what the cost delivered is here, so we will have our Annual NEPA Tour Day.

Greg: I agree with you. I'm starting to believe that people "burn wood to burn wood". There is a primative appeal to it with a vague justification of savings, but I'm not finding it a very efficient or practical heating method.

You come home to a cold house a lot.
Charlie Z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Coalbrookdale
Stove/Furnace Model: Darby

PostBy: castiron On: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:20 pm

Charlie Z wrote:I'm 4 long weekend days into bucking, splitting, and stacking about 5 cords of 'free' fruit wood (trunks delivered by the farmer, which saved a ton of time and work). Not finished.

I'll have to move those 11 ton of wood again when they season to the woodshed, then again into the house. Bars, chains, splitter, sharpening. It's good exercise, but there is nothing 'free' about it.

NG is more than 2x the cost of coal. Here's the breakdown per therm (MBTU) for my area. Wood is listed @ $175/cord, coal @ $165/ton:

Wood $13.71
Coal $9.00
Elec $50.69
Oil $21.98
NG $18.75
LP $28.46

With coal only costing ~$560 for our heat a season, I can't afford 'free'.



Charlie,

I used NEPA Admins last link (above) and when I plug in coal at approx $200/ton (I live near Dayton, OH) and about $170 for wood, they come about out the same price.....BUT...that assumes I pay for wood...I don't, so wood for me is far cheaper than is coal.....AND for anyone not living close to coal sources and who have to pay upwards of $200 or more per ton, then (especially if you scrounge) it's far cheaper than is coal and even if you have to buy it, wood is still as cheap.

That said, coal is still attractive because it's cheaper than NG and has less tending than wood......
castiron
 

PostBy: Charlie Z On: Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:40 pm

$1070 (coal) vs. $1416 (wood) with your numbers. That's 30% more.

What does it take in time, equipment and effort for you to put up 4-5 cords?
Charlie Z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Coalbrookdale
Stove/Furnace Model: Darby