Re-Install 1980 Godin Large Round or Go New?

Hi All,

This is my first post, but I've been reading for a while and have found the best and clearest info here, so thanks in advance for your help.

Let's cut straight to the pictures... I've learned that much already, here is the stove in question.



That's a Godin model 3721 Large Round Stove. It was purchased by my parents in 1980 when we moved into our home on Eastern Long Island (I was 6 at the time). We burned coal for about a decade, but as fuel prices came down, my folks moved to a Vemont Castings Dauntless to get a better "fireplace-like experience". That little guy, or course, is worthless for heating and the Godin was relegated to a corner and used as a plant stand. Fast forward to 2009... My parents lured us back to Long Island from the West Coast by offering up the house, so they moved out and we moved in. We pulled the dauntless because it was taking up a lot of room with it's non-heating self and it is now used as a TV stand in my folks condo! I just changed my career to teaching a couple of years ago from and my wife is a full time Mom, so we wanted to find a way to offset the heating of this place during the Nov - Apr timespan. My Dad of course said... hey, the Godin is right over there in the corner... why don't you hook it up again! The stove looks to be in good working condition and we have another available for parts if need be.

And here is the space she will sit in. Not against the wall like in the picture, but centered in what amounts to a small porch. The main living area is just to the right through a 10' wide pass thru



So, the questions.

1. Do you think it is a good idea to install the old girl with plans to burn mostly coal with some wood in the shoulder seasons, or look for something new like the TLC 2000 that could function similarly?

2. Am I correct in thinking that the TLC isn't eligible for the Tax credit because if is primarily a coal burner?

3. What would you think for a hearth? According to NFPA code, unlisted stoves with 2" to 6" legs (ours are 2") should be on 4" hollow core brick with a 26 gauge sheet metal top plate.

4. We spoke with our building department and they said to follow the "manual" which calls for 16" of hearth in front and 8" on sides and back. NFPA says 18" all around for unlisted. Which would you do?

5. When talking about clearances, do we measure from the widest part of the stove or from the side of the firebox? With this stove, I will have 36"+ of clearance to combustable from the side of the cylinder, but the legs come out another couple of inches on each side which only gives me about 33". Do you think this would be a problem?

Thanks for all your input, I value all opinions from this forum... so far.

Start with what you have already...
It is about saving money, right...

If it is listed to burn wood it will have a rebate certificate...
If it is only listed for coal; so sorry...

If the NFPA hearth passes muster with the local officials...
You can always make it better...

I would make the front 18" as the Godin can spill some hot coals...
If you can go 18" all around why not have better protection...
You have the front ash lip...

Side of the firebox as the feet will not heat up much...
36" is plenty of room...

CapeCoaler wrote:Start with what you have already...
It is about saving money, right...

yep, but safety too. I guess I'm just a little leary of installing something that not many people around here understand. I'm heading to the local coal guys today to talk about it... and specifically what the building dept will look for.

CapeCoaler wrote:Start with what you have already...
If it is listed to burn wood it will have a rebate certificate...
If it is only listed for coal; so sorry...

This is probably way out of the $$ range for us anyway... even with 30% back.

CapeCoaler wrote:Start with what you have already...
I would make the front 18" as the Godin can spill some hot coals...
If you can go 18" all around why not have better protection...
You have the front ash lip...

Yeah, we have the ash lip... and I would probably go 18 all around.

CapeCoaler wrote:Start with what you have already...
Side of the firebox as the feet will not heat up much...
36" is plenty of room...

I hope that is what the inspector thinks!

thanks.

I am wondering the reasoning behind putting the stove in the "porch" area. Is that because that's where the chimney is? Is it a top or rear vented stove. The pictures don't show an existing hearth and your post asks about the construction of one. If you are starting this project from scratch and not working with an existing chimney, you may want to consider placing the stove in a different location. You are going to lose a lot of heat out those windows (Are they insulated?) and the 10 ft doorway is going to block the flow of the radiant heat to some extent. Is the chimney centered on the door way? You won't have a heat shield to bounce the radiant heat coming off the back of the stove into the living space. Of course you'll get a lot heat but you'll lose a lot, too. Have you given any thought as to how the air flows in your room? A simple thing to do is to take a balloon, blow it up and see where it goes over a day or two. Just somethings to consider in your planning.

Of course if you are working with an existing chimney, then the location is perfect. I'd say hook it up as is and light the match come Oct. It will make a beautiful addition to your home. Have a great day, Lisa

The Godin is a very efficient heater...
If you have good coal guys they will point you in the right direction...
Properly installed the Godin is very safe...
Are you using an existing chimney or building a new one...

While Harmans are very good stoves, they aren't cheap. Free trumps anything else every time.

Your house looks modern, so I assume it has very good insulation. That Godin should throw out plenty of heat.

Thanks for the input folks...

The stove was originally in the middle of the living room on a round base... took up a lot of floor space. The middle of the living room would probably be the best location, but it would really kill the visual flow of the room... and we have a 3 year old who likes to run and dance there... probably not an option. I have considered the fact that we will loose heat in the porch location, but the house is only about 1000 sq. ft. on the ground floor. The house was built in the 1920s, so all those windows in front porch are single pane glass. I rebuild and insulated the north facing walls last year, but I wouldn't say that it is a "well insulated house". I'm hoping I could move the heat around using fans... Note that in addition to the pass through to the living room, there is a "window" in the wall as well without glass. In my heart I know that you guys are right that it is not the best location. decisions, decisions.

Here is our floorplan (made in google sketchup):



Chimney: There have been three class A chimneys in this house over the years, but all have been removed, so I'm starting from scratch.

I hear you on the running room issue...
That window opening is a nice spot for a box fan to move the heat into the house...
The porch while not 'perfect' should work if you use the box fan...

First put Godin in the search box of this forum and read everything.

The large round Godin has a grate system that looks like it was designed half for wood and half for coal. Not the best for ease of clearing ash. Very small ash pan which will need frequent emptying, maybe 3 times a day. The stove can put out good heat, but it's major good point is it's handsome looks.

The porch is bad for heat distribution, living room much better. What is above the living room? Is there another floor or just attic space and roof? Can a chimney go straight up or would it have to exit side wall? Straight up is cheapest and best. My advice is to install in the living room on one of the walls.

Another option is to sell the stove on Craigslist $400 and buy another stove. Now is a good time to buy. I have seen Harman for $500, Surdiac for $200, Franco Belge for $200, all of which are better coal stoves in terms of ease of use. You might have to travel a bit though and there is the time and trouble involved in selling your stove and buying another, but you would have a stove that has been UL tested with known clearances. The best time to sell yours is in another month or two.

Your major expense is the chimney and hearth. A cheaper and better and thinner hearth can be built.

Wow, what a neat tool! Since you are starting from scratch why not consider putting the stove in one of the corners of the living room - on the wall where the sofa is in your drawing. That would give your 3 year old room to dance and maximize your heat distribution. You could go out the wall with the chimney, too. I’m always leery of going through the ceiling. How long are those corner sections of wall? Either side would work but if possible I'd go with the corner next to the unlabeled little corner room. A stove placed here would heat your entire first floor, including the porch, and you'd get some residual heat through the ceiling to the upstairs.

Look up the "pictures of my stove" posting to see many different placements of various models of stoves.

I agree with Franco b. While free and a beautiful addition to the house, your stove brand does have disadvantages. Franco b mentioned the grates and the size of the ash pan. I'll mention no distribution fan. Now maybe the time to trade up. There is a very good, little used Harman Mark II on the forum for sale at $600; an excellent price for that stove in that condition. A Harman stove is extremely easy to burn and while I do consider the ash pan small, I only have to empty it once a day if that. There are many used stove brands available which are easier to burn, could very easily supplement your whole house furnace and may indeed be able to heat the whole thing. It's certainly something to think about. Good luck, Lisa

Now you have done it...
Opened the can of worms...
Pretty up the Godin and sell it on Craigslist for $500...
Then buy a different stove that works much better...
My preference is for a hopper fed stove which gives a longer run between feedings...
And a fan less stove for the quiet factor...
I have owned a MarkII, did not like the fan noise in the living room...
Russo not enough BTU and had the fan noise issue...
Vigilant Coal, pretty not enough BTU but quiet and hopper...
The 'rents have a Hitzer 503 insert, again fan noise but superb heat...
I now have a DSM Basement #4 130,000 BTU hopper fed and no fan noise...
Love it nothing better, quieter, plenty of heat on the nastiest of days...
Well maybe a AA boiler would be better...
But that EFM sounds good also...
Decisions, Decisions...
What to do...
DSM makes a smaller unit with a hopper and no fan...
Pick a spot that makes sense for the chimney...
In the living room if possible for better heat circulation...
In the corner or against a wall...
Make it so a different stove install will not cause clearance issues...
Have some fun burning coal and saving money...
If you like burning coal but need a better stove...
You can always trade up in the future...

Thanks for all the input!

OK, so I was speaking with my Mom today who said that when the stove was in the middle of the living room, it was almost too much heat... and she is someone who doesn't like to be cold. Honestly, we don't intend to heat solely from this stove... it is more of an offset situation. In that capacity, it is more important that we don't have to feel like it dominates the living space... which is why I don't want it in the middle of the room.We like the layout of our rooms and I don't want to get involved with extending the hearth up the wall which prohibits some of the corner placements people were suggesting.

@franco b: I have read all the Godin posts around here and they are what lead me to want to give the stove a shot... and because it's part of our family's past... and because it is free. Above the living room is 1/2 attic and 1/2 upstairs hallway. So the only places that are feasible are the middle of the room or the side that connects to the porch... that is without having to go through our already small upstairs dormer.



@sheepdog: I'd probably go right out the front door with ashes and the distance to the basement isn't a lot.

@capecoaler: come on, you can't be flippin' like that... but I guess your used to the turn over based on your history of stoves!

Today I spent some time making a diagram of what it would take to install it in the porch. Tomorrow I will take this to our local coal guys and try to get an idea of what it would cost as well as what I'll need to put together for the building department. I will keep the updates coming.

What a great house! Don't you love making decisions in a win-win situation? Your Godin will look great and keep your family warm no matter where you put it. Good luck, Lisa

Hi Cliff and welcome to the NEPA coal forum.

Godin's are neat stoves but they are more work to maintain a fire. But they light really easy! Don't want to put a damper on your plans, no pun of course! I bought one for a secondary unit in my home but after a few test trials I decided it was not the stove for me.
But the design is very efficent WHILE it is burning. My main issue with this model was ash cleanout. Somewhat of an inefficent design compared to a modern design. IMO. You will probably need to extinguish the fire in order to clean out all of the ashes OR be satisfied with a partial cleaning. You may also want to purchase the exteranl ash pan to prevent ashes from falling on the floor when you do your cleanouts.

One more very important detail, the flue on that stove is a metric size. You will either have to have a sheet metal shop or stove shop build you an adapter in order to mate up with the 5" or 6" pipe we see in the stores. I recall something like 4.3" outlet.

I recall a supplier in Canada who I believe still carries parts. If you do an internet search, there are also guys in England & France who will ship to the US for parts or maybe the metric adapter I mentioned. I recall a price under $50 built using ss.

Let us know how you make out & remember, WE LOVE PICTURES!