Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:12 pm

You measure draft with a manometer. Search for that or any word in the upper right where is say "Google Custom Search". I rigged up a hose and a rubber plug that I occasionally stuff into the secondary air inlet to check the draft. There are several models that Dwyer offers, I have a 460 that can be used as a flow meter too.

If you are getting long enough burn times to meet your needs, I'd leave the bricks as they are. With the standard setup, you'd just have more ash to manually move off of the side of the fire box.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:56 am

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:You measure draft with a manometer. Search for that or any word in the upper right where is say "Google Custom Search". I rigged up a hose and a rubber plug that I occasionally stuff into the secondary air inlet to check the draft. There are several models that Dwyer offers, I have a 460 that can be used as a flow meter too.

If you are getting long enough burn times to meet your needs, I'd leave the bricks as they are. With the standard setup, you'd just have more ash to manually move off of the side of the fire box.


Thanks, I will get the nanometer and rig. Got a 12 hour burn but slow to recharge. I am thinking the larger box is more important. I would like to get longer
burns and deal with the extra ash build up....

matt
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:47 am

vmi1983 wrote:...8<...
  • Two tons of Reading pea coming this week, have some bagged Blashack nut and pea on hand.
  • Thanks, I will get the nanometer and rig. Got a 12 hour burn but slow to recharge.
matt


Matt, pea coal will be slower to recover when recharging the fire box. Nut will be quicker. The main reason is that with pea there are more yet smaller more restrictive air passages between the pieces of pea sized coal. Nut will have fewer yet larger less restrictive air passages between the nut sized pieces. The smaller spaces reduces the draft and therefore slows the recharge recovery time - pea acts the same as a draft damper (much like an mpd). If you read up on the hits from a pea vs nut Google search, you'll find that some say nut burns hotter. In reality, the amount of air going thru the fire bed regulates how hot a mature fire gets, not the coal size. 10 lbs of nut has the same BTU content as 10 lbs of pea. Larger sized anthracite gets hotter quicker because more air is available to the burning surface at a higher velocity.

For many years I burned pea from my local Reading dealer. Sometimes his pea stock ran on the large size of the range, others on the small size of the range. My chimney's draft is strong enough to use pea with out long reload recovery times. A good friend recommended trying to run nut/pea mix. Over the past few years I've been using this mix instead of just pea and I've found this to be quicker/easier. You'll be okay with the load of Reading pea but if you find it's on the small size, pick up some nut and mix them together.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

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Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:25 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:
vmi1983 wrote:...8<...
  • Two tons of Reading pea coming this week, have some bagged Blashack nut and pea on hand.
  • Thanks, I will get the nanometer and rig. Got a 12 hour burn but slow to recharge.
matt


Matt, pea coal will be slower to recover when recharging the fire box. Nut will be quicker. The main reason is that with pea there are more yet smaller more restrictive air passages between the pieces of pea sized coal. Nut will have fewer yet larger less restrictive air passages between the nut sized pieces. The smaller spaces reduces the draft and therefore slows the recharge recovery time - pea acts the same as a draft damper (much like an mpd). If you read up on the hits from a pea vs nut Google search, you'll find that some say nut burns hotter. In reality, the amount of air going thru the fire bed regulates how hot a mature fire gets, not the coal size. 10 lbs of nut has the same BTU content as 10 lbs of pea. Larger sized anthracite gets hotter quicker because more air is available to the burning surface at a higher velocity.

For many years I burned pea from my local Reading dealer. Sometimes his pea stock ran on the large size of the range, others on the small size of the range. My chimney's draft is strong enough to use pea with out long reload recovery times. A good friend recommended trying to run nut/pea mix. Over the past few years I've been using this mix instead of just pea and I've found this to be quicker/easier. You'll be okay with the load of Reading pea but if you find it's on the small size, pick up some nut and mix them together.



Thanks for the advice VigIIPB... my friends built a 2T coal bin in the garage. The pea is priced low so hey I'll have to get more nut to mix. I am rethinking the
firebox size. The burn time was way short last night. The top fire inner fire bricks were removed this morning, the lower ones are still in place,
it is ..... 0900 hours or so. :arrow:

2200 Hours now , the temps are in the 20's tonight.... with the two extra upper-inner horizontal fire bricks removed ... there is an extra 72 cubic inches of space...
I estimate the fire will last through the morning.... this will be the first 24 burn.... hmmm interesting. :?:
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Interested to hear how you made out!
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:45 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:Interested to hear how you made out!



At 0430 I added a layer of nut... the stove had plenty left to burn.... it's now 1530 hours and I am recharging the fire, just added a layer. I was out all day,
and noticed the left edge of the bed is extinguished. Still the fire is going strong right now... I am glad I laid in some coal.... :)


This afternoon, my friend installed angled fire brick. He cut it from the two upper-inner
bricks removed recently. In addition to the standard fire brick the box is has two extra inner lower horizontal fixed bricks; these sit on the lower ledge where the original angled bricks lay. Atop those horizontal are 2" (or so) custom steep angle bricks. Since the angled pieces are elevated maybe the coal will slide
into the steep box, naturally, reducing any extra ash build up? So it is a wait and see game... I need more burn time... if this does not work out over the course of
a month of cold weather trials, the two lower horizontal bricks are going and I will operate the stove per its original design.

Thanks,
Matt
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:20 pm

When the burning coal bed dies out on the side(s), it's getting precariously thin. I've learned not to touch the bed when it's in this condition - don't even think about shaking. I've lost a few fires thinking I can get away with. I've found it best to add at most a few inches of nut and feed it serious air from underneath. Once this layer is going, I'll add another until the bed is ~ 4-5" thick then I can shake it down as usual.

Matt, could you please post a picture of the side with the bricks cut and installed as you've described? I think I can mentally construct the layout but I'm not 100% sure it. If not a picture, maybe a hand drawn side view. The attached screen shot of the parts list show the side (14), the 2 side split-bricks (13) positioned horizontally and the 45* angled brick that sits in front of the splti-bricks. On my stove the side split-brick are positioned vertically, just like the back split-brick (12).
Attachments
2310 intrals.jpg
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Vigilant II 2310 manual screen shot showing typical Left side view.
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VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:33 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:When the burning coal bed dies out on the side(s), it's getting precariously thin. I've learned not to touch the bed when it's in this condition - don't even think about shaking. I've lost a few fires thinking I can get away with. I've found it best to add at most a few inches of nut and feed it serious air from underneath. Once this layer is going, I'll add another until the bed is ~ 4-5" thick then I can shake it down as usual.

Matt, could you please post a picture of the side with the bricks cut and installed as you've described? I think I can mentally construct the layout but I'm not 100% sure it. If not a picture, maybe a hand drawn side view. The attached screen shot of the parts list show the side (14), the 2 side split-bricks (13) positioned horizontally and the 45* angled brick that sits in front of the splti-bricks. On my stove the side split-brick are positioned vertically, just like the back split-brick (12).


Hi Vig,

Thanks for the tip. I was instructed to do the same... laid on some coal and re built the fire...I don't touch the coals...I shook it too much a few months back and lost my first two fires that way :shock:
Since then fire has burned continuously.


The bed's filled right now...I can't get a good picture.. but from the schematic, and on each side of the firebox:

Part #13, the fire bricks are placed vertically and cemented.

Where the angled firebrick usually sits there is
an additional fire brick in lieu of it , laying horizontally and cut to fit--- front to back.

On top of that horizontal brick sits the angled fire brick.

So the box is
narrower at the bottom but flares outward towards the top.

Rudimentary drawing below is not proportional.

|= firebrick lining
\ or / = angle bricks



| |
\ / Right Side
| |
|_______ |
Grates
Front of stove

The question is... where is the optimal placement of the angled firebrick? Is the original design best or should the angled bricks be placed higher?
The idea is to place angle bricks so that there is less ash build up, (easier to maintain)... I am not sure this is even that big of a deal....
and not make the box any smaller than necessary... :?

I'm just a new guy... so I don't know... I am satisfied if the burn times are long :)
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:04 am

I apologize for the scrambled diagram in my previous post. But you know what? It's all water under the bridge.

My friend, another VigII operator, removed all the extra-inner firewall brick. The stove still has the original single wll of brick ;) As previously stated in other posts, my VigII had two layers of fire brick along the sides. The inner fire brick has been completely removed. The VigII is now a heat monster. :D The lower side walls of the stove emit more heat. The front of the stove emits more heat, so it seems the stove has a significant difference in overall heat out-put. Even though the stove top thermometer readings may be the same, (regarding my modification and the original design) , I think the stove top temperature is not the final indicator of stove performance. The sides and the front temperatures are equally important. :idea:

My friend and I think the removal of the extra fire brick allows for more efficient passage of heat threw the stoves designed chambers.
The extra fire brick served too well as an insulator between the box walls and the gas chambers?

The larger fire box is proaboly the more important reason the stove is kicking so much heat.

My lesson learned is I may have out-smarted myself. I think I might be better off operating the stove with in confines of its orgianl design. :?:

Thanks,

Matt
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:54 pm

Seems like you have it figured out :clap: There is a relationship between the sides' temperatures and how much heat is being circulated away from the stove. Nice to have a thermostatically controlled air inlet on a stove. Great design, huh?! I've observed the same - sometimes the stove top reads the usual ~700* and the sides will vary on occasion from 550 - 630* depending on the room temperature. I've never toyed with placing fans nearby. The stove is in a big room with 9' ceilings and the house design passively moves the heated air and radiant heat.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:10 am

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:Seems like you have it figured out :clap: There is a relationship between the sides' temperatures and how much heat is being circulated away from the stove. Nice to have a thermostatically controlled air inlet on a stove. Great design, huh?! I've observed the same - sometimes the stove top reads the usual ~700* and the sides will vary on occasion from 550 - 630* depending on the room temperature. I've never toyed with placing fans nearby. The stove is in a big room with 9' ceilings and the house design passively moves the heated air and radiant heat.


Boy, it's very fun to have a neighbor that burns a VigII. We both put our heads together and figured it out, and he was a huge help. You're absolutely right VigIIPB , this stove is a great design. Double fire brick is a no-on. Single fire brick and the stove really performs well.

My other buddy stopped by today and he runs three stoves. ( He's the fellow who recommend that I buy this VigII off Craigslist.) He stared in silence at the stove
admiring the heat out-put, and the stove was only kicking 600 F at the top, but the total heat output is hard to articulate. You just have to get 3 feet from the stove to experience it. He was truly in awe.

The glass in my stove is set high so there is an air slit between the glass and the door. Take a match to it and you can see there is considerable suction where the air gets in. My buddy's VigII, the glass is set lower, so low that no air seems to pass through the slit. His stove came that way from the factory. Take a match to his slit, no air seems to be passing through the slit. His stove feels hotter on the sides and the front than mine. He keeps the secondary port open about 1/8th of an inch presumably to burn off the secondary gasses. We were going to try and narrow the gap on my glass to reduce the air flow somewhat. There's no gaskets on the bottom so obviously air is supposed to pass thru there. The question is, how much? Any tips, experience would be helpful!

Thanks,

Matt
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:01 am

My glass and gaskets are OEM install. There is no gasket material at the bottom of each piece of glass. The overlap is essentially the same all the way around the perimeter. I never checked it with a flame or anything for that matter. If you're pulling a match flame, you're likely wasting heat up the chimney because all that air is over fire. Try packing most of that slit with gasket fibers as a trial. I'd be surprised if you didn't have to back off on the thermostat.

I don't think secondary air is as important when burning anthracite as it is whit bit. I could be wrong. The volume of hydrocarbon volatiles are minimal in ant when compared to bit so the over fire combustion that occurs is minimal. No smoke/particulates to combust further Whit more air. I keep my secondary port closed. I tried it open a few times but all I noticed was a loss of draft and the thermostatic flap opened more to maintain the previous heat output. To me that indicates lower combustion chamber temperatures, not better combustion. Anthracite is controllable by regulating the volume of under fire air.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: SteveZee On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:27 am

That's right VigIIPB. The over air on my old Herald is used primarily (by me) to slow the fire. Since it's not air tight, the best way to slow the burn is open the check damper in the ash pit and open the feed door vents. This will give me a lazy 250 degree or so burn.
SteveZee
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Modern Oak 116 & Glenwood 208 C Range

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: nortcan On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:56 am

I also made some testings for the lower glasses gap: completly sealed, partially sealed and not sealed and not much difference.
With the holes I made in the front doors, I usually just open them a small gap. Some time I make some test by opening one side more than the other one and then the fire goes on more on the closed one indicating that the draft is by-passing the coal bed on the open side. About like Vigll Peaburner just said. The advantave of these holes is that they keep the glasses more clear and free from ash etchings them. For the over the fire gasses burning the air entering from these hole seem to just go too high and to the stove's exit. I would like to try to send that air in a channel to the top of the front doors to see if it would do like when opening the top griddle and go down like when opening the top griddle when having no blues, the blues arrive instantly when opening the top griddle.
Also right like said, the left secondary air opening must be closed when burning ant. And anyway, this vent could never ignites anything cause too far from the hot heat needed to ignite something. Just have a look at the modern EPA wood stoves, a more sofisticated device must be arrange to burn the gasses than that low placed hole.
BTW, a Vigll is arriving original with single row of regular fire bricks like on the exploded view sent by VigllPB.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: Anyone burn a Vermont castings Vigilant II?

PostBy: vmi1983 On: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:07 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:My glass and gaskets are OEM install. There is no gasket material at the bottom of each piece of glass. The overlap is essentially the same all the way around the perimeter. I never checked it with a flame or anything for that matter. If you're pulling a match flame, you're likely wasting heat up the chimney because all that air is over fire. Try packing most of that slit with gasket fibers as a trial. I'd be surprised if you didn't have to back off on the thermostat.

I don't think secondary air is as important when burning anthracite as it is whit bit. I could be wrong. The volume of hydrocarbon volatiles are minimal in ant when compared to bit so the over fire combustion that occurs is minimal. No smoke/particulates to combust further Whit more air. I keep my secondary port closed. I tried it open a few times but all I noticed was a loss of draft and the thermostatic flap opened more to maintain the previous heat output. To me that indicates lower combustion chamber temperatures, not better combustion. Anthracite is controllable by regulating the volume of under fire air.


Right I'll pack the slit with fibers and see how that works out. Thanks....
vmi1983
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Godin Large Round/ La Belle Epoque
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Anthracite

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