EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: pine grove coal user On: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:38 pm

I was at a yard sale and bought a EFM lableled heat recovery unit. This is the type that goes in line on a 7" stove pipe. It has a fan and a bi-metal thermostat to control the fan. The fan blows air into the room with the stove.
This particular unit was not in great condition. The perforated sheet that slides to clean the tubes was frozen in place as was the fan motor. But I was able to fix both.
(One thing I don't like about this unit is that it is made in such a way that you could not connect a duct to it to direct the warm air to another room.)
I did not know EFM made these units. Any idea how old it might be? It did not have a model or serial number on it.
pine grove coal user
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: H. S. Tarm, model 202, 1980
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Reading 'bucket a day' stove in storage, waiting for attention
Coal Size/Type: Pea and nut mix
Other Heating: New Yorker oil burner which almost never runs, thanks to the Tarm!

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: stoker-man On: Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:44 am

They went out of existence when turbulators were introduced. Not sure when they went out, probably in the '80s. We still have the heat sensing discs and fan blades in stock.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: pine grove coal user On: Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:28 pm

I'm curious. What is a turbulator?
pine grove coal user
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: H. S. Tarm, model 202, 1980
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Reading 'bucket a day' stove in storage, waiting for attention
Coal Size/Type: Pea and nut mix
Other Heating: New Yorker oil burner which almost never runs, thanks to the Tarm!

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: stoker-man On: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:44 am

Turbulators are zig-zag pieces of sheet metal, inserted into the tubes of a boiler. They slow down the air flow to allow more extraction of heat by the water jacket. This brings the stack temperature down to the 300+ degree level rather than the old 600 degree stack temps. The old stoker boilers used a similar device, called a spinner.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:34 am

stoker-man wrote:Turbulators are zig-zag pieces of sheet metal, inserted into the tubes of a boiler. They slow down the air flow to allow more extraction of heat by the water jacket. This brings the stack temperature down to the 300+ degree level rather than the old 600 degree stack temps. The old stoker boilers used a similar device, called a spinner.

There is no way any of the 350 or 520 unit's new or old will hit 600F stack pipe even at 9.5 air and 8 or 10 teeth feed rate
unless you have no seals on the unit or the main chimney clean out door is open outside or no draft control on the stack pipe with a 45+ ft chimney even then I don't believe you would hit that 600f range.
Using them Turbulators will also cause the tubes to block up with fly ash cutting or stopping your draft . I Just tested a old 1956 520 with the spiral Turbulators 21 of them Ran the unit with them in it The stack draft was .01.5 WC inside stack pipe Temps where 304f at 4 teeth feed and 6 air burning a mix of rice & buck. outside temp 78.3F Took them out stack draft went to .04 WC inside stack temp 310 F same feed same air setting outside temp 79.5F.
Tested this unit before cleaning and after cleaning with Turbulators in & out of unit.

Draft with them in and unit cleaned out draft came up to .03 wc stack temp came up to 315F
Draft with them out .04 wc stack temp 321F also put new gaskets on viewing door and ash door also Resealed the outside chimney clean out door . Chimney was 24Ft block with 8" clay tile liner Readjusted Draft control .
I would rather have a better drafting chimney with slightly higher stack temps instead of having lower or none drafting chimney with slightly lower stack temps.

I also ran my DF unit with and with out a draft control on it in. With one on stack pipe at 6 air 3 teeth feed inside stack temp hit 325F draft .03 wc at stack . Without one on stack pipe inside stack temp hit 435f draft in stack .04.5 to .04.75
WC. Outside temps where 46.2F .

Chimney is 20ft block until it hits roof line then turns to 4ft brick with 8" clay liner with a flex 6" SS. liner inside of that.
Don't ask why the chimney is block & brick I did not build it or the house . 6" S.S. liner is coming out will Retest in a few months when weather is cold .
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:17 pm

While I concur that stack temps are not as seriously effected with or without' and draft purchase on the fire chamber will be effected --- and you do need to attend to "punching" the fire tubes a bit more often with turbulators in place.

Lack of cleaning just means your not getting all the energy you could out of your fuel. This is one of the rebufs I have against Water tube Boilers -- They never get cleaned enough.

While I agree with all the above statements of draft and stack temps, I will point out that the transfer efficiency of fuel energy to the water will be seriously reduced with out the use of turbulators. It is the lazy boiler monkey that tosses them in the corner - the guy that is not writing the check for fuel - because the guy shoveling to the coal tender will know the difference.

Hot fuel gas tends to "tunnel" in the center of the fire tubes of the heat exchanger - Without something even as simple as a suspended pc of log chain in a vertical tube -- most the fuel energy never touches the heat exchanger walls -- and simply fly's out with the smoke.

What a waste! :cry:
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:16 pm

pine grove coal user wrote:I was at a yard sale and bought a EFM lableled heat recovery unit. This is the type that goes in line on a 7" stove pipe. It has a fan and a bi-metal thermostat to control the fan. The fan blows air into the room with the stove.
This particular unit was not in great condition. The perforated sheet that slides to clean the tubes was frozen in place as was the fan motor. But I was able to fix both.
(One thing I don't like about this unit is that it is made in such a way that you could not connect a duct to it to direct the warm air to another room.)
I did not know EFM made these units. Any idea how old it might be? It did not have a model or serial number on it.

Magic heat corporation Burton Michigan 48529 Made them and still does Probably made them for EFM using efm spec.
they are a little different then the Magic Heat Reclaimer . Magic uses 10 heat 1" exchanger tubes the slide out rod has a plastic knob on the end . EFM units had I think if I remember correctly had more / smaller heat exchanger tubes and the rod was Just bent to a L at the end both are design to remove the heat from stack exhaust into the room that the unit is
in Not made to run in a heat duct was never made for that type of use .
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:00 pm

Sting wrote:While I concur that stack temps are not as seriously effected with or without' and draft purchase on the fire chamber will be effected --- and you do need to attend to "punching" the fire tubes a bit more often with turbulators in place.

Lack of cleaning just means your not getting all the energy you could out of your fuel. This is one of the rebufs I have against Water tube Boilers -- They never get cleaned enough.

While I agree with all the above statements of draft and stack temps, I will point out that the transfer efficiency of fuel energy to the water will be seriously reduced with out the use of turbulators. It is the lazy boiler monkey that tosses them in the corner - the guy that is not writing the check for fuel - because the guy shoveling to the coal tender will know the difference.

Hot fuel gas tends to "tunnel" in the center of the fire tubes of the heat exchanger - Without something even as simple as a suspended pc of log chain in a vertical tube -- most the fuel energy never touches the heat exchanger walls -- and simply fly's out with the smoke.

What a waste! :cry:


The efm Vertical Heat exchanger tubes do not have water in them or going threw them only exhaust heat fuel consumption will be minimal with out them in I think you will and do use more fuel with them in because they get full of fly ash slowing or blocking the draft and causing the unit to run more to make up the heat loss from all the fly ash in the tubes and on the spiral metal turbulators that do touch the inside of the tube wall and on top of the smoke shelf loosing more efficacy.
Trust me I know lots of units running without them in and lot with them in You don't see any more fuel being used with them out you will see more fuel being used with them in from what I see and know . By the way if your cleaning the boiler correctly you have to take them out anyway to get the brush Thur the tubes and you have to go Thur the flue exit anyway so you can clean out the fly ash laying on the bottom of base even with the units that came with the clean out door on back of the boiler at the top below the water coil so dropping the Tubulators out & back in is no big deal unless they are stuck in the tubes from not being cleaned out in a long time or the unit was shut down during the summer months with out being cleaned out which can and usually does cause other issues.
Sting I think your thinking of a water Horizontal or vertical tube boiler But then again maybe not .
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:33 pm

I guess I should have stayed over by my dish again. Ill likely be a addition or another black mark on your list.

I have a small knowledge of the difference between a fire tube and a water tube boiler. And I see you "jaded" point regarding different units maybe not using more fuel. That point is mute. Seat of the pants engineering will not fly with me on this one.

You actually need grasp the concept of laminar flow (see first link below) and test the exact input and output of a single appliance - by a static degree day load load - with and with out turbultors in the vertical (or horizontal) fire tubes. And yes you will have an extra measure of maintenance to attend to - the fair price to pay for the added BTU output of wet energy.

Horizontal fire tube turbulators were regularly parked by Old Dead Monkeys - especially under hi loads because they were too fricken lazy to keep up to the work demand, and coal was cheep. A thousand lemmings following each other off the cliff doesn't make the first one right.

Nope -- not backing down on this one. :roll: Put the turbulators in, and punch the fire tubes twice a day if necessary.

Kind Regards
Sting


http://www.energysolutionscenter.org/BoilerBurner/Eff_Improve/Efficiency/Turbulators.asp
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

This propaganda manufactures report is on a NG boiler - the result with coal fire products of combustion may not be as significant -- it still is more than a subtle change. And the pictures are pretty!

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/industry/b ... oilers.pdf

http://www.fuelefficiencyllc.com/feturb.html
Last edited by Sting on Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: Pa Dealer On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:36 pm

coal berner wrote:
stoker-man wrote:Turbulators are zig-zag pieces of sheet metal, inserted into the tubes of a boiler. They slow down the air flow to allow more extraction of heat by the water jacket. This brings the stack temperature down to the 300+ degree level rather than the old 600 degree stack temps. The old stoker boilers used a similar device, called a spinner.

There is no way any of the 350 or 520 unit's new or old will hit 600F stack pipe even at 9.5 air and 8 or 10 teeth feed rate
unless you have no seals on the unit or the main chimney clean out door is open outside or no draft control on the stack pipe with a 45+ ft chimney even then I don't believe you would hit that 600f range.
Using them Turbulators will also cause the tubes to block up with fly ash cutting or stopping your draft . I Just tested a old 1956 520 with the spiral Turbulators 21 of them Ran the unit with them in it The stack draft was .01.5 WC inside stack pipe Temps where 304f at 4 teeth feed and 6 air burning a mix of rice & buck. outside temp 78.3F Took them out stack draft went to .04 WC inside stack temp 310 F same feed same air setting outside temp 79.5F.
Tested this unit before cleaning and after cleaning with Turbulators in & out of unit.

Draft with them in and unit cleaned out draft came up to .03 wc stack temp came up to 315F
Draft with them out .04 wc stack temp 321F also put new gaskets on viewing door and ash door also Resealed the outside chimney clean out door . Chimney was 24Ft block with 8" clay tile liner Readjusted Draft control .
I would rather have a better drafting chimney with slightly higher stack temps instead of having lower or none drafting chimney with slightly lower stack temps.

I also ran my DF unit with and with out a draft control on it in. With one on stack pipe at 6 air 3 teeth feed inside stack temp hit 325F draft .03 wc at stack . Without one on stack pipe inside stack temp hit 435f draft in stack .04.5 to .04.75
WC. Outside temps where 46.2F .

Chimney is 20ft block until it hits roof line then turns to 4ft brick with 8" clay liner with a flex 6" SS. liner inside of that.
Don't ask why the chimney is block & brick I did not build it or the house . 6" S.S. liner is coming out will Retest in a few months when weather is cold .



I'm sure chris was talking about oil fired boilers when he said 600 degree temps.



ry
Pa Dealer
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 DF
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM DF 520
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:35 pm

Pa Dealer wrote:
coal berner wrote:
stoker-man wrote:Turbulators are zig-zag pieces of sheet metal, inserted into the tubes of a boiler. They slow down the air flow to allow more extraction of heat by the water jacket. This brings the stack temperature down to the 300+ degree level rather than the old 600 degree stack temps. The old stoker boilers used a similar device, called a spinner.

There is no way any of the 350 or 520 unit's new or old will hit 600F stack pipe even at 9.5 air and 8 or 10 teeth feed rate
unless you have no seals on the unit or the main chimney clean out door is open outside or no draft control on the stack pipe with a 45+ ft chimney even then I don't believe you would hit that 600f range.
Using them Turbulators will also cause the tubes to block up with fly ash cutting or stopping your draft . I Just tested a old 1956 520 with the spiral Turbulators 21 of them Ran the unit with them in it The stack draft was .01.5 WC inside stack pipe Temps where 304f at 4 teeth feed and 6 air burning a mix of rice & buck. outside temp 78.3F Took them out stack draft went to .04 WC inside stack temp 310 F same feed same air setting outside temp 79.5F.
Tested this unit before cleaning and after cleaning with Turbulators in & out of unit.

Draft with them in and unit cleaned out draft came up to .03 wc stack temp came up to 315F
Draft with them out .04 wc stack temp 321F also put new gaskets on viewing door and ash door also Resealed the outside chimney clean out door . Chimney was 24Ft block with 8" clay tile liner Readjusted Draft control .
I would rather have a better drafting chimney with slightly higher stack temps instead of having lower or none drafting chimney with slightly lower stack temps.

I also ran my DF unit with and with out a draft control on it in. With one on stack pipe at 6 air 3 teeth feed inside stack temp hit 325F draft .03 wc at stack . Without one on stack pipe inside stack temp hit 435f draft in stack .04.5 to .04.75
WC. Outside temps where 46.2F .

Chimney is 20ft block until it hits roof line then turns to 4ft brick with 8" clay liner with a flex 6" SS. liner inside of that.
Don't ask why the chimney is block & brick I did not build it or the house . 6" S.S. liner is coming out will Retest in a few months when weather is cold .



I'm sure chris was talking about oil fired boilers when he said 600 degree temps.



ry

HE was talking about both last line of his statement was The Old stoker boilers used a similar device called spinner
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:50 pm

Sting wrote:I guess I should have stayed over by my dish again. Ill likely be a addition or another black mark on your list.

I have a small knowledge of the difference between a fire tube and a water tube boiler. And I see you "jaded" point regarding different units maybe not using more fuel. That point is mute. Seat of the pants engineering will not fly with me on this one.

You actually need grasp the concept of laminar flow (see first link below) and test the exact input and output of a single appliance - by a static degree day load load - with and with out turbultors in the vertical (or horizontal) fire tubes. And yes you will have an extra measure of maintenance to attend to - the fair price to pay for the added BTU output of wet energy.

Horizontal fire tube turbulators were regularly parked by Old Dead Monkeys - especially under hi loads because they were too fricken lazy to keep up to the work demand, and coal was cheep. A thousand lemmings following each other off the cliff doesn't make the first one right.

Nope -- not backing down on this one. :roll: Put the turbulators in, and punch the fire tubes twice a day if necessary.

Kind Regards
Sting


http://www.energysolutionscenter.org/BoilerBurner/Eff_Improve/Efficiency/Turbulators.asp
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

This propaganda manufactures report is on a NG boiler - the result with coal fire products of combustion may not be as significant -- it still is more than a subtle change. And the pictures are pretty!

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/industry/b ... oilers.pdf

http://www.fuelefficiencyllc.com/feturb.html

No black mark with sting. Just stating want I know and seen first hand with efm stoker coal fired boiler with vertical heat exchange tubes with and without tubulators and with the flat plate heat exchangers that do not use them How familiar are you with both Running /using set up cleaning and refurbing EFM's and I am not being a Smart A$$ just asking
P.S. EFM never used / made themselves or had made for them from any of the other boiler companies that made the boilers for them Not on any of their underfed coal stoker boiler never used any type of Horizontal heat exchanger or water filled fire tubes. Vertical heat exchanged tubes only 1-7/8" 1-3/4 " 2" & 2-1/4" and the vertical flat plate exchangers like being used on all the DF units today. Also made them in the 60s 70's on the AP 350 520 700 900 & 1300 models
Last edited by coal berner on Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: stoker-man On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:00 pm

Seems like alot of discussion over the turbulator issue. Turbulators are only used on efm oil-fired products. The old stoker boilers used spinners, but I have no info on them. Without turbulators in an oil boiler, the stack temp could be 600.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:51 pm

stoker-man wrote:Seems like alot of discussion over the turbulator issue. Turbulators are only used on efm oil-fired products. The old stoker boilers used spinners, but I have no info on them. Without turbulators in an oil boiler, the stack temp could be 600.

They came in the tube coal stoker boiler Their are spiral mental with a pointed top and a revers V shape notch bottom that sat across on 3/8 to 1/2 steel rods that went across the base in the back the rods lay on hooks a set on each side of the base two three & four in a row for 350 and 520 or more for the bigger units. Some had holes in the rods and the turblators / spiral spinners or whatever you would like to call them Some had a pointed mental pin at the bottom of them that went into the rod holes also the bigger units had flat steel plates that where welded on round rod which laid across the base on the hooks . There are buckets full of all at the shop. Short ones for 350 long ones for 520 and longer ones for the highboy 520 some 700 came with them to as well as the flat type for the bigger units like 900 1300
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM brand of stove pipe heat recovery unit

PostBy: Pa Dealer On: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:22 pm

stoker-man wrote:Seems like alot of discussion over the turbulator issue. Turbulators are only used on efm oil-fired products. The old stoker boilers used spinners, but I have no info on them. Without turbulators in an oil boiler, the stack temp could be 600.



Sometimes people remove turbulators to overfire an oil furnace to squeeze out more BTU's, or if they have a chimny thats condensating the extra lost heat up the chimny will keep it warmer and reduce condensate.



R.Y
Pa Dealer
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 DF
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM DF 520
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker