First Burn and I Need HELP

OK, so I have done a lot of reading about coal as I am switching from wood. I purchased a Harman SF-150 last Spring and have it hooked up. No baro since I will be burning some wood (various times just to use what I have in the shed already). I purchased a bag of pea and nut to test.

So here we go...

I built a good wood fire about an hour of burning and established about 1-2" of coals with 2 sticks still burning on the left and right side, so I start adding the pea coal nice and slow a small shovel full at a time (about 2 handfuls actually). Let that get catch until I see some coals glowing from the coal and blue flames coming through. I keep going with the same process. The stove temp hits 600 (mostly from the fire) with stack temps around 500 (I know that is high, but I'm giving it lots of air to get it going) after about 30 minutes of slowly adding and getting lots of blue flames I'm thinking this is looking good. I decide to 'bank' it if that is the right term, I added a bunch of coal and let that start burning total coal about 30#'s from start to finish). Turn the bottom dial all the way in and then back it out 2 full turns and sit back to watch, stove temp is now 400 and stack at 200, this was at 7:45PM, at 8:30 I start putting the kids to bed and the temps are still 400/200. I look in through the glass and see some blue flame and coals. I think damn this should get us through the night just as it is.

Well. I get up at 6:30 to a cold house. The fire was dead, a few coals remaining and about half the coal not burnt - still black and some just tinted red. Upon opening the door a little blue flame pops up, so I leave it open and hope it catches, but in 1 hour nothing happened it was dead!!! (I was on the road all day yesterday so I did not get a chance to mess around or ask). Its going to get coal again tonight and I would like to try it again, but with more success.

What did I do wrong? Not enough air? Not enough coals before adding coal? We had a lot of blue flames before I banked it.

More Info.
Running into a brick chimney about 20' straight up with a SS liner that has been insulated between the liner and brick with 2000 degree cement like material that was poured in. I've been burning wood for year in it. Just days before I cleaned it and the pipe so its getting a pretty good draft.

PS. When I walked outside at 8:00PM after adding coal - it smelt like the 4th of July

I can think of a few reasons why the fire went out:

1)Not enough coal in the firebox, once the coal fire is established you need to fill the firebox up completely. Contrary to what you might think if the firebox is not completely filled the fire can die out without burning up all the coal you have added. The amount of heat produced is controlled by the amount of underfire air given to the fire as opposed to a wood fire where you control the heat produced by the amount of wood added.

2) The overfire air vents on the loading door must be closed. All the air should come from beneath the grates.

3) Underfire air vent not open enough.

4) The most important reason: Poor quality coal. I had the same experience when I first started burning coal. I was looking at everything except the coal. Once I got some decent coal everything changed.

Look at this thread:
Cold Chimney?
That was me when I first started burning coal. I went through the learning curve just like you are doing now. I don't know everything but I do know all coal is not the same.

OK, I'll add more coal and try it, do I need more coals before I start adding coal?

The top above fire doors for wood were closed.
I'm burning Blaschak (sp), I thought that was a good brand?

I just read the thread you mentioned and I am wondering if I need more coals first and spread them out, the center was burning good, but not the edges or the front. HMMM got me thinking that I need a better bed of coals to start with. I'll start the wood fire this afternoon.

I have a lovely cement board wall behind my stove as well and need to do the stone work. I'll post some pics of my set-up later today.

Where can I buy a manometer to see what my draft is, I wonder if it is too much. I do have a MPD so I could use that to slow it down if needed.

Thanks!

Blaschak is good, that should eliminate the bad coal question.

Get a hot and very vigorous wood fire going. Add the coal slowly and let it get burning. Fill the firebox completely, give it lots of air to start.

Also, coal responds slowly to changes in air flow, etc. Be patient!

In my experience, pea needs more inlet air. In fact, I prefer stove coal most of the time now.

The spaces between each individual piece are smaller with pea and there is a more convoluted path for it to travel so I find I have to open the air more to maintain a fire.

Also, I've never had much luck with banking on my Mark I. It's a surefire way to put a fire out if you'll excuse the pun.

jpete wrote:In my experience, pea needs more inlet air. In fact, I prefer stove coal most of the time now.

The spaces between each individual piece are smaller with pea and there is a more convoluted path for it to travel so I find I have to open the air more to maintain a fire.

Also, I've never had much luck with banking on my Mark I. It's a surefire way to put a fire out if you'll excuse the pun.

Interesting with the Pea needing more air to keep it going.

Maybe I am confusing the terms what is banking? I thought it was adding coal to the back of the fire, but not filling the fire box.

Am I missing anything other than more air and more coals?

Your description of the blue flames sounds encouraging, but I am also thinking the pea needed more air. Try it with the nut this time.

I follow your basic procedure with a little variation on my Harman Mark III. While the wood fire is still showing lots of flame, before it turns into glowing red coals, I am adding sprinkles of nut across the entire firebox allowing it to catch while the firewood burns. The thought is to get a good bed of coals all over rather than just in the middle as you mentioned. After the first go 'round I would probably add a couple thin sticks of firewood and repeat the coal sprinkle process in your case just to ensure success! After you see the nice red glow of the coals (wood & coal), then start adding more and more coal with a little time between. You should probably be generous with the air to start and back it down rather than go the other direction. The first couple times you build up the fire and reload with coal will probably require a little more attention than usual just for you to get the hang of it. After that you'll have a good routine.

You should be able to "bank" it as you describe. The trick is to discover the air supply your setup needs for the best burn and that takes a little trial and error. Everyone's stove / chimney set up has its own draft personality so the 2 turns on the draft intake that I use on my stove may not work best for you.

Grainger sells the Dwyer manometers and you can also find them on e-bay.

Forgot to add, if you had too much air flow I would have expected the coal to be burned up rather than leaving unburned coal as you described.

A suggestion I would offer is to start your fire with Kingford Match Light charcoals. Layer some over the whole grate in the Mark I ( which I also have ) and let it get burning good ( like you were going to cook a steak) then begin layering coa over the whole grate. Start slow -- a few inches of coal and let that get burning good. Continue alone that vein until the 'hopper' if full and lots of blue flames are active. Then close it down ( lower draft control ) to the burn rate you want ( I usually don't open it more than a turn - to a 1 1/2 turn ).

Also I would suggest that you burn nut coal and not pea. I have had my Harman Mark I for several season and find that the nut works best. During the dead of winter I do 'range' my hopper with a bottom layer of nut and top it off with some Stove Coal for a hotter burn. If you do that always start ( after shaking down ) with a good layer of nut and then put in the Stove coal--it's easier to 'shake down' that way with the smaller coal ( nut ) at the bottom.

You should have given it a shake before retiring. There was probably a lot of wood ash on the grate blocking air.

HanSoSlow wrote:Maybe I am confusing the terms what is banking?

When you are adding coal to the fire DO NOT rake the hot coals around first it will kill your fire for sure. Just dump the fresh coal on top of it.

HanSoSlow wrote:

jpete wrote:In my experience, pea needs more inlet air. In fact, I prefer stove coal most of the time now.

The spaces between each individual piece are smaller with pea and there is a more convoluted path for it to travel so I find I have to open the air more to maintain a fire.

Also, I've never had much luck with banking on my Mark I. It's a surefire way to put a fire out if you'll excuse the pun.

Interesting with the Pea needing more air to keep it going.

Maybe I am confusing the terms what is banking? I thought it was adding coal to the back of the fire, but not filling the fire box.

Am I missing anything other than more air and more coals?

I always think of my stove like my lungs. If the airflow is very restricted, I can't really exert myself and generate a good sweat(heat).

So the smaller "grain" of coal, the more restricted the airflow, the lower the heat.

Banking, as it was explained to me, is the physical act of raking the coal into a bank on one side. I find this stirs up the ash and chokes out the fire. Your method seems more or less acceptable. As long as it works.

I would fill the fire box when you get a good base burning. Coal likes a lot of weight on top of it to get a good burn.

I just started the fire using kingsford and will be adding some nut soon. Nut is much bigger than I thought, so I could see why it would burn so different.

Stay tuned.

15-20 min in added first layer of coal 2 shovels and letting that catch looking good so far, but its early. Blue flames showing up and a layer of Kingsford glowing underneath. Stove temp 550 stack 400.

Here is a pic of the fire 475/400 temps slowly dropping with the bottom door open.

Judging from the looks of your picture, that is a pretty hot fire,
you can pretty much dump a good charge on that.
Too hot can be bad too...

From what we have learned...
One thing that we have found with our Harmans, is that they
really don't care for pea... Nut and stove work sweet.

DON'T mess with the bed of coals once established,
or even worse, when you are losing your fire.
Start moving them around, and you might a well just shovel
it out and start over, because it will be dead in about 5 minutes.

They LOVE deep beds of coal, and some ash.
SOME ash.
Need to shake a couple of times a day, only until you see
a handful of red stuff dropping into your ash pan.

Don't sweat 500+ stove, and 400+ stack when you are lighting it off.
That's the only way to get it done without making a two or three hour project
out of lighting your stove. Get that baby cranking.
You will ALWAYS see the temp take a nose dive right after you dump
a couple of shovels on... and it can take a while to get back up.
(unless you play with your ash door, which you'd better not leave if you do,
700 is easy to get if you forget!)