Hyfire II Decision

The system freezing due to a power outage when I was away was an extreme case. Had the wind not been blowing in the steady upper 60 mph range for a couple days I doubt I would of had a problem. Having said that, the pipe freezing certainly exposed an air leak somewhere. The house is well insulated but the pipe that froze was on the wall facing the lake close to the "turn" when the pipe comes up through the floor. We were not able to locate an air leak without the wind blowing as the repair was being made. I can't winterize the entire property every time I leave, however, I understand what you are saying. Anyone that relies on electricity for heat or heat distribution, etc. would have the same problem if they left the property for an extended period of time in the winter and there was a power outage.

bbnx wrote:...>8... How will increasing the water temperature by a few degrees in the existing runs make enough of a difference to raise the air temp in the house 15 +/- degrees ?

As far as adding more runs, that MAY help but in this house I think it would be easier (and cheaper) to buy a buy a Hyfire II.

And, YES, propane DOES suck!

A BTU is the amount of heat (energy) it takes to raise one pound of water 1*F. Water is 8.33 Lbs/gallon. With heating loops on three (four?)floors, you could move a lot of BTUs by raising your recovery rate up such as would happen with a coal fired boiler. I'm hoping that the hydronic people will pick up on this thread soon.

I can't imagine that a 122,000 BTU propane heater (is this out put or input?) can recover (reheat the returning water) quickly enough to keep up with the heating demand of 4,000 ft2 in MI on the lake. There's got to be a HUGE delta on the returning water from the top floors. The story that you stated about the top floor's zone freezing (moving water freezing!) on a windy day supports this. I'm heating 3100 ft2 (11 yrs old) in nwnj with a similarly sized oil fired furnace and that runs steady when it's near 0*F to keep it warm, not toasty - just warm.

I'm not certain if the BTU I stated is input or output. I'll check the next time I venture down there and update. As far as moving water freezing.... The water wasn't moving. I think that was the problem. The electricity was off for an undetermined period of time and consequently the recirculation pump stopped. I agree that if the water was moving that it would be difficult, although not impossible, to freeze.

I've joined this thread at the request of forum member VigIIPeaBurner.

Let's take a time out from the various suggestions and determine what's needed from an engineering point of view. You have two problems to solve, the total BTU heat loss requirements and a heat distribution requirement. Determine the size of needed heating appliance(s) by doing a Manual J analysis of you building. Search the forum for "Manual J". Lots of topics. Also look for one or more posts by me on a free heat loss tool from Taco.

The heat loss analysis will allow you to input your local weather conditions, building insulation, air infiltration, etc. The analysis will give you the heat loss which you must make up with your heating appliance(s). It will also give you a room by room heat loss. This will allow you to design the heat distribution system you need.

You have existing baseboard and claim it's undersized. Baseboard can be over-driven above design standards by putting hotter water at a faster rate through it. Antifreeze will reduce the heat transfer capability. I'd look for a freeze protection design that doesn't use antifreeze. Backup generator, drain down, propane fueled gravity flow, etc.

Most likely you will find a boiler will be your best solution, because it's output can be piped or blown to where you need it. My guess would be you could meet your heating needs with the existing baseboard supplemented with water to air blower coils.

Learning how to engineer a solution will have a learning curve, but will reward you with a design that works and/or has deficiencies you have accepted.

Thanks for taking the time to review this thread. As is the case with all of the other forums members that have replied, you've made some interesting points. I'll take them into consideration as I move forward. Thanks again!

How are your windows....Are they really good quality?

Windows are wood frame, double pane Andersons.

Anyone that relies on electricity for heat or heat distribution, etc. would have the same problem if they left the property for an extended period of time in the winter and there was a power outage.bbnx

I hear you about the wind! We get the same thing every winter too, being on top of a mountain. Wind, wind, and more wind. We installed a Generac Guardian (Guardian Generac?) whole house generator which has more than paid for itself, especially after a severe ice storm when power was out for 4-5 days in my area. Comes on/switches off automatically when power goes out, or power returns. Last year it kept our Hyfire II running without a hitch during several power outages that we had. Peace of mind. We found the best price from an Ebay seller, and our electrician neighbor installed it.

Yeah, your set up is definitely the way to go! I have a medium sized generator that I can use to run the important things, including the stove, but it would be much easier to sit back and let it all happen automatically as your does. Peace of mind is an understatement......

Curious how you are making out with your new Hyfire II? Any updates to share?

Good Morning,

Overall I am very satisfied with my stove. I am able to comfortably heat two of the floors in my house. I blocked the 3rd floor off with a door and am not heating that, however, I think I could depending on a variety of factors. (outside air temp, how warm I want the other two floors to be, etc.) I am VERY glad I was able to get the upgrade blowers as that I am certain is helping a lot.

I was surprised at the quantity of fly ash the stove produces. I have had to completely shut the stove down two times to take the pipe apart to clean out the ash. The 2nd time ash had accumulated on the fins of the power vent fan to the point that it was starting to wobble a bit. Cleaning the pipes was an inconvenience but nothing more. On the other hand, cleaning the fins on the fan meant working outside as winds/snow howled off Lake Michigan. The wind chill was in the -30 degree range that day but I didn't have a choice due to the wobble. I survived thanks to a bit of whiskey to warm my bones.

I was hoping that the stove would run a bit longer unattended. And I say that from an ash standpoint, not coal. When I am running the stove hard (both burners at 20-25 feed rate) to keep the floors warm I need to empty the ash bin every 24 hours. That's not an inconvenience at all unless I want to leave for a couple days and maintain temperature in the house. If I leave now, I adjust the max feed rate down low enough that ash is not accumulating as quickly. No big deal. It beats a wood stove which would likely need ash to be removed much more often.

There are a few other minor items about the entire setup I would revise if given the opportunity but nothing major. Based on my satisfaction AND the drastic change in environment in my home (much warmer, cheaper to heat) I have had a number of friends interested in the stove to the point that I spoke with the LL guys about becoming a dealer and selling to my friends and the general public. LL has requirements/restrictions that I was not interested in entertaining though so that did not work out.

My neighbor has a house larger than mine and uses a wood fired boiler outside to heat his baseboard system. He HATES me now as my house is warm AND I don't have to walk outside at all hours in Northern Michigan blizzards to feed a fire. And of course, the propane company hates me as well. I went from purchasing upwards of $3000 of propane per month to..... Zero so far this Winter. I don't even turn that system on anymore. I am spending approximately $450 per month in coal. I have a LOT to learn about this stove but am very glad I made the purchase.

Thanks for your interest!

bbnx wrote:Good Morning,

Overall I am very satisfied with my stove. I am able to comfortably heat two of the floors in my house. I blocked the 3rd floor off with a door and am not heating that, however, I think I could depending on a variety of factors. (outside air temp, how warm I want the other two floors to be, etc.) I am VERY glad I was able to get the upgrade blowers as that I am certain is helping a lot.

I was surprised at the quantity of fly ash the stove produces. I have had to completely shut the stove down two times to take the pipe apart to clean out the ash. The 2nd time ash had accumulated on the fins of the power vent fan to the point that it was starting to wobble a bit. Cleaning the pipes was an inconvenience but nothing more. On the other hand, cleaning the fins on the fan meant working outside as winds/snow howled off Lake Michigan. The wind chill was in the -30 degree range that day but I didn't have a choice due to the wobble. I survived thanks to a bit of whiskey to warm my bones.

I

Give me a call at the shop ,I would like to make sure your are setup correctly with the PV . 570-752-1811

How is the Hyfire working out for you? I might be getting one. How is the company to deal with?

theo wrote:How is the company to deal with?

theo, just a quick note if you don't already know... The guy that posted just before you (look up^^^^^) IS "the company"...

Flyer5 (Dave) is Leisure Line Stove Company, He is right here just a click away when you need help or have questions... I'd say that alone speaks volumes about "the company"...

Just my $.02

I've heard a lot of GOOD about him and the company !! I'am really thinking about buying this Hyfire 11 It's a used unit. If i get it, i think it's going to be a keeper!! Have to work on the price a little, what would be a fair price for a used one? I'am told it's 4 yrs. old and good shape, i havent seen the stove yet, it's a little ways from me. I've bought other stove's sight unseen and had good luck with them. I need to go bigger than the Harman mag. i'am burning,,, I think the Hyfire would do the trick!! Give me some incentive to try the L Lines out Dave!! You helped me out before with some electric math!