AHS-130 Problem

AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: jmmazzy On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:08 pm

I have 2 ahs 130's, one in my house and one in my son's house. My stoker works perfect no problems but from day one Oct, 2008 when they were fired up I noticed the flapper on my son's did not slam shut like mines did and sometimes open. I reported this to ash and spoke to Carl at the time which is no longer there. I fired her up last week and after 2 days she died and setting the Co2 off. Called AHS and spoke to Jeff and directed me on some corrected measures on the fan. This did not work. So I inspected the swirl tube and cone assembly to make sure everything was clean, no luck. Figured maybe chimney, so all breaching was disconnected and blower moter stared and filled the boiler room with dust, but the flapper still didn't shut. Figured something is wrong withe the blower assenbly. Took my combustion blower assembly off my stoker and put it on my son's stoker, still nothing, took his and put on mine and it worked great. Spoke to Jeff again today and told him from what I can see everything looks identical between the two stokers. I am a plumber of 44 years but not with coal stokers. Does anybody know what I'm missing or had this problem.

Mazzy
jmmazzy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alternate heating system
Stove/Furnace Model: s-130

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: Yanche On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:30 pm

The obvious question is ... Is the blower fan blades firmly gripped to it's axle shaft? Very unlikely you would have missed this.

How about ... No coal in the hopper and no ash on the grate. Then there might be such an open air flow through both that the flapper door doesn't get sucked in.

I'd take an air hose through the flapper door and blow air through the combustion gas path, i.e. where the blower would suck the combustion gases. Use a rag to make the air hose nozzle as tight as possible. When doing this does the fan axle shaft turn? Does air come out the boiler breach? Careful blowing air in, it will make a dust mess. Let us know what you find.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: Bob On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:52 pm

Inorder for the air flow to be correct and pull the flapper door shut when the fan comes on the fire pot has to be filled with coal/ash and there should be coal up into the hopper. (If there is sufficient coal in the hopper the flapper door should pull shut even if the lid is not on the hopper)

If the fan is turning and producing air flow and the flapper door still doesn't pull closed with the fire pot full of coal and coal up into the hopper then there has to be an air leak.

I assume you have confirmed you are using pea or smaller coal--a larger coal size might allow enough air to flow through the fire pot to prevent the flapper door from being pulled in.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: jmmazzy On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:53 pm

Thanks Bob But I tried that with a full load in the hopper and I agree with the air leak, but from where? I will try tomorrow and plug the hopper feed but the cover for the hopper is always on an see what happens. Yes using pea. Remember I take care of both boilers and do exactly the same to both.
jmmazzy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alternate heating system
Stove/Furnace Model: s-130

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: Bob On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:04 pm

Could there be an air leak around the hopper fitting into the boiler?

One other thought is that the spring/tension setting for the flapper valve is incorrect and prevents the flapper valve from closing.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: jmmazzy On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:33 pm

Yanche the fan is firmly griped, tried it on other unit and works perfeck that I am sure of. When I turn the fan on with an open breach it blows believe me but the flapper door does not shut. Remember I have 2 of these units and one is running flawlessly and the other can't get out of bed. Doing exactly the same to each unit. This has been a issue since day one on this unit. I took both units apart today and in my eyes everything looks identical as I told Jeff. I agree with Bob and you that there is an air leak or restriction, but where, it's a simple system to figure the operations and the working of this stoker, I'm waiting to here from Jeff tomorrow, if its not the blower which is the heart of the unit and I'm sure its not than what else is left. Jeff also said that the hopper didn't need to be full as long as the cover was on, in eather case tried it both ways.
jmmazzy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alternate heating system
Stove/Furnace Model: s-130

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: jmmazzy On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:52 pm

Bob, No leake around the hopper fitting, spring tension is normal on flapper, there is not enought draw of air to close the flapper, had to tie a bungy cord to finish the fire on flapper. On my unit when the fan goes on the flapper slams shut and the coal fire rumbles on take off something like an oil boiler and has no problem reaching temp. The other unit just never shuts off' and takes forever to reach its hi limit if ever during cold spells and the coals never get as hot as my unit. I'm stumped.
jmmazzy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alternate heating system
Stove/Furnace Model: s-130

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:20 pm

Here is a crazy question...Have you verified that the fan is spinning in the correct direction?

Is the motor reaching the rated speed?

-Robert
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: jmmazzy On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:32 pm

Thanks Markviii, yes I did check speed rotation but not the rated speed as it did do its job when I switched blowers from one unit to the other but I will check that also, Thanks.

Mazzy
jmmazzy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alternate heating system
Stove/Furnace Model: s-130

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: whistlenut On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:53 pm

What is the base on? Is it a concrete floor in both applications? Somehow air is finding a path of least resistance.

You have swapped out the blower assemblies and they both seem work just fine. That should eliminate the possibility of a motor running backwards on one, but not the other. You should check rotation with them out so you can verify they are both correct. I can't understand how you could reverse a single phase 115 v motor, anyway, but it MUST be checked.
It is possible that the original factory wiring wasn't correct.

I've never heard of this problem with any AA or AHS, ever, so something is definitely not correct. Check the wiring and the possibility that mounting may be letting in too much air from below.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ & V-Wert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks,Itasca 415,Jensen, NYer 130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska, EFM, Keystoker, Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska, Keystoker-2,Leisure Line
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska, Gibraltar, Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Ford, Jensen, NYer, Van Wert,
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwoods
Coal Size/Type: Barley, Buck, Rice ,Nut, Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:05 pm

Just throwing out another thought. Is the ash cone properly sealed? A few members on here have reported a "lazy burn" from air leaks around the ash cone: Build Up In The AA-130 Ash Cone
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:09 pm

Could the problem be too much space under the base. I know they get their air from around the door. But if there was a big gap under the base then it would be easier to draw the air from there keeping the little door from shutting. :)
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: jmmazzy On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:49 pm

stokerscot wrote:Could the problem be too much space under the base. I know they get their air from around the door. But if there was a big gap under the base then it would be easier to draw the air from there keeping the little door from shutting. :)

Both units are on a concret slab, they are identical installs
markviii wrote:Just throwing out another thought. Is the ash cone properly sealed? A few members on here have reported a "lazy burn" from air leaks around the ash cone: Build Up In The AA-130 Ash Cone
.
As far as I can see the ash cones are welded in place and not removerable but are clear
whistlenut wrote:What is the base on? Is it a concrete floor in both applications? Somehow air is finding a path of least resistance.

You have swapped out the blower assemblies and they both seem work just fine. That should eliminate the possibility of a motor running backwards on one, but not the other. You should check rotation with them out so you can verify they are both correct. I can't understand how you could reverse a single phase 115 v motor, anyway, but it MUST be checked.
It is possible that the original factory wiring wasn't correct.

I've never heard of this problem with any AA or AHS, ever, so something is definitely not correct. Check the wiring and the possibility that mounting may be letting in too much air from below.


Rotation was the first I checked on both units, I figured this was an unlikely problem but checked it anyway.
I have done a lot of reasearch on the aa 130 and ash 130 before I bougth my stokers and had nothing but great reviews on both, but I have 2 with identical installs, one is working great and on is not. Jeff at AHS is kind of stumped himself and so am I. It's kind of basic on how this stoker works.
jmmazzy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alternate heating system
Stove/Furnace Model: s-130

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:40 pm

Easy fix, have you son move back home with you :lol: Another thought, does the flapper door swing freely and how far away is it. My AA uses a threaded bolt and 2 nuts on either side to keep the flapper away at idol, some times it would hang up on the threads if it was too close to the inner nut. If AHS uses the same cutting edge technology as the AA :D
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: AHS-130 Problem

PostBy: gizmo On: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:51 pm

I have a AA 130 but they are simular.The space between the bottom of the fire pot
and the ash tray regulates max air flow.When you fill the pot it creates a vacuum pulling
the draft breaker door shut.I can open my door to empty ashes with out the breaker door
opening.If I light a new fire its always lazy at first till the pot is full creating the restriction
on the little door.If it has never been quit right I would look at something like the space
between the fan and the gas chamber or something that fits a little different from one to
another.I can slow my blower down a lot and still suck the door shut.Hope you can figure it out.
gizmo
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Pea
Other Heating: NONE