Question about hardware

Question about hardware

PostBy: av8r On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:13 pm

Each year I disassemble the stove in the fall to give it a good once over. The first year I learned a good lesson. The threads on the 4 bolts that hold the stoker assembly to the stove body on my Hearth model are exposed to the internals of the stove. Upon trying to remove these I snapped 2 of them off (yes, I used penetrating oil and was gentle) I suppose this is due to at least 2 issues:

1) The hardware is inexpensive and exposed to a corrosive environment which causes it to break down very quickly thus making removal difficult.

2) The heat cycling that the hardware is exposed to must cause significant degradation of the temper/hardness of the material, thus making it quite weak and easy to snap under torque.

I drilled out the damaged bolts, and ran a tap through the nuts which are welded onto the stove in such a way as to make them nearly impossible to replace. I switched to stainless bolts and began using high temp anti seize which seems to work pretty well. I had one bolt this fall that took me about 20 minutes to remove as even coated with anti seize it had corroded badly and had to be worked gently back and forth to remove it. The threads were badly galled so I replaced it.

I may have missed it in the initial setup guide, but does/did LL recommend coating these bolts? Are the new Hearth models built the same way with these bolts exposed? Are the attachment nuts still welded in placed in the same fashion?

Thanks
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: Brian On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:51 pm

Never use a stainless bolt in a carbon steel nut. Find a good carbon steel bolt and keep using the anti-seize. Should help.
Brian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Kodiac

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: Brian On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:04 pm

Should have told you the gunk i use is called NEVER-SEEZ made by Bostik. Works for me.
Brian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Kodiac

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Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: av8r On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:05 pm

Explain to me why you shouldn't use stainless with mild steel? I was told this resolves the galling issue found when you use stainless with stainless?

Here's the stuff I use...good to 1800f
Image
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: Brian On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:19 pm

Well I can't answer your question! But i can tell you working with high pressure steam for 20 yrs is when you mix stainless with carbon steel you usually need the the band saw or torch to make your cut.
Brian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Kodiac

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: av8r On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:27 pm

Brian wrote:Well I can't answer your question! But i can tell you working with high pressure steam for 20 yrs is when you mix stainless with carbon steel you usually need the the band saw or torch to make your cut.


Fair enough!
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: k9 Bara On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:30 pm

I buy used stoves, refurb them and sell them. I use SS with carbon and a good amount of anti seize compound. I have had no issues when removing bolts after stove has been used.
k9 Bara
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM
Coal Size/Type: Rice Anthricite

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:34 pm

I had the same problem when changing gaskets, and broke one bolt, redrilled and tapped and used the Hi Temp Copper never seize....

I also suggested to Dave & Matt at LL to use a u-nut or something, that is replaceable, kinda like the u-nut fender bolts on vehicles.
nut.png
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[nepafile=22960]nut.png[/nepafile]


OR have them put the bolts (or studs) on from the inside and weld them on, so the threads are on the outside.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: Brian On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:39 pm

Well you just got me out of bed.Kept thinking about this post.(Ya Ya I must be a nut). Well here goes (carbon steel :idea: :idea: :idea: )and stainless steal are like oil & vinegar. I sound like Sheldon Brown the cook. Well mix the two medals with a soft alloy (copper!!!!!) and Its like the soldering process with the heat of a coal stove.
Brian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Kodiac

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: Brian On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:47 pm

35°outside 75°Inside NEPA
Brian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Kodiac

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:22 pm

WNY wrote:I had the same problem when changing gaskets, and broke one bolt, redrilled and tapped and used the Hi Temp Copper never seize....

I also suggested to Dave & Matt at LL to use a u-nut or something, that is replaceable, kinda like the u-nut fender bolts on vehicles.
nut.png


OR have them put the bolts (or studs) on from the inside and weld them on, so the threads are on the outside.



That's a pretty good idea . I wish this thread started before I just received 250 of the extension boxes with the nuts welded on . Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: av8r On: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:42 pm

Flyer5 wrote:
WNY wrote:I had the same problem when changing gaskets, and broke one bolt, redrilled and tapped and used the Hi Temp Copper never seize....

I also suggested to Dave & Matt at LL to use a u-nut or something, that is replaceable, kinda like the u-nut fender bolts on vehicles.
nut.png


OR have them put the bolts (or studs) on from the inside and weld them on, so the threads are on the outside.



That's a pretty good idea . I wish this thread started before I just received 250 of the extension boxes with the nuts welded on . Dave


LOL....I mentioned this to the previous owner of LL. He just told me he hadn't had any issues with this.
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:05 am

av8r wrote:
Flyer5 wrote:
WNY wrote:I had the same problem when changing gaskets, and broke one bolt, redrilled and tapped and used the Hi Temp Copper never seize....

I also suggested to Dave & Matt at LL to use a u-nut or something, that is replaceable, kinda like the u-nut fender bolts on vehicles.
nut.png


OR have them put the bolts (or studs) on from the inside and weld them on, so the threads are on the outside.



That's a pretty good idea . I wish this thread started before I just received 250 of the extension boxes with the nuts welded on . Dave


LOL....I mentioned this to the previous owner of LL. He just told me he hadn't had any issues with this.




Another thing you can do is put the bolt in from the inside make it like a stud ,then use washers and nuts on the outside . That should be a simple fix .The problem with using stainless is if it gets overtightened the threads stretch causing the same issue of the bolt breaking on removal . Dave Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: av8r On: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:51 am

Flyer5 wrote:Another thing you can do is put the bolt in from the inside make it like a stud ,then use washers and nuts on the outside . That should be a simple fix .The problem with using stainless is if it gets overtightened the threads stretch causing the same issue of the bolt breaking on removal . Dave Dave


I'm not sure that will work without slotting the bolt hole to allow for the length of the bolt between the double steel. Also, how would you keep the bolt from turning? Have you tried this?
av8r
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Hearth with twin turbos (sounds like it)
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth model with twin turbos

Re: Question about hardware

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:19 am

Don't use a bolt that is to long either. After its tight there should be no more that three threads exposed. If there is you got bolt that it to long.
cArNaGe
 

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