Where is our heat going?

Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Pocono Newbies On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:00 am

We have a Hyfire II and now have the Coal-trol operating our furnace fan automatically. We're getting good airflow. But, what's coming out of our vents is barely, slightly warm air. We've also been having an issue that started at the END of last heating season, where the night temp is dropping to 67 although Coal-trol is set at 69. Day temp setting is 70. I'm keeping a log, and each morning, temp is at 67, with FR at 0, or 12, or 36, etc., depending on outside temps. Min 4, Max 32 because of burning coal being dumped into ash pan. SFT 15. We tried it at 8, per Neil's suggestion, but then there was a lot of COLD air coming out of the vents.

After a lengthy conversation with Neil at Coal-trol place, we tried raising FR back to 40. Burning coals are now at grate's very edge, so I've just backed it down to 35. The Coal-trol temp read 68 this a.m., with FR of 16, and 5 minutes later, it read 69 with FR of 25, with outside temp of 31. However, our regular thermostat for our Carrier Furnace is right next to the Coal-trol, and it read a steady 67 regardless of what the Coal-trol read. Coal-trol now reads 69, with a FR 60. The setting for the DAY temp of 70 is at 6:15 a.m. and it is now 8:45. So at 6:18 a.m. Coal-trol read 69, and now at 8:45 a.m. it still reads 69. Carrier thermostat reads 68. I know that the coal stove doesn't provide instant temps the way our gas furnace does, but something just doesn't seem right.

Why is the air from the vents so cool? Seems we are losing heat somehow or somewhere. Even down in the basement, it used to be really warm in the stove area last year, and the whole basement was toasty. Now its not that warm, although granted, the stove hasn't been working hard yet. We used to have nice hot air coming up the basement stairs, too. I don't feel it the way I used to last year. Could be with the furnace fan on high now, (the setting for heat), it's pulling more heat from the stove, but then, where is the heat going? Certainly doesn't seem to be coming upstairs thru the vents. Even the 2nd fl. is not that warm.

Last year, before tieing the stove into our duct work and just heating by convection up from the basement, the house was an even 69-70, temps were maintained perfectly, and the house was comfy. Once the Hyfire was tied into the ductwork, we had a problem of too much hot air going to the 2nd floor, but the downstairs remained steady with the temp. At that time we had the furnace fan operating manufally and could only have it run on low, so poor airflow. Now I'm cold, overnight temp is not being maintained, and I'm ready to put the regular furnace on!
Last edited by Pocono Newbies on Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Pocono Newbies
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:28 am

probably not a great answer,but,I'm a firm believer in "if it ain't broke don't fix it"--what else do you have tied into that duct work--you're loseing it somewhere :(
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Pocono Newbies On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:42 am

Only things tied into the ductwork is our furnace, the coal stove, and central air. Same as last year. Nothing's changed except for our furnace fan now being controlled by the coal-trol module. We just had the dry contacts installed on the module so that it will automatically turn on the fan, also at the higher setting used for heat. But the issue began last year, I think in March.
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Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

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Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:31 am

Pocono Newbies wrote: I know that the coal stove doesn't provide instant temps the way our gas furnace does, but something just doesn't seem right.


Hmmmm.... Assuming its all hooked up correctly, then my guess, the stove is maxed out,trying to provide enough BTUs to heat the same SqFt that your furnace could. Especially since you say hot coals are falling or have fallen off the grate.
Stoves are great for heating a room or two or three, but to heat the entire house, especially a large one, usually requires a furnace.
My DVC-500 is rated at 75k BTUs, and thats not enough to heat the entire house during the cold months. We also use the FireplacExtrordinaire, rated at 85K BTUs. This is enough for our 2800 SqFt well insulated raised ranch.
It doesn't matter what the fuel source is... coal, gas oil, if the BTUs aren't enough to heat the house then you can do 2 things:
1)Insulate the house
2)Get a larger furnace
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Pocono Newbies On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:16 pm

I get what you're saying, but this is a Hyfire II, which we ran using one burner for much of last heating season. Only had to light 2nd burner when it got really cold, 10-15 degrees or so. It's only been in 30s and low 40s here in the mornings now. House is well insulated, 6 yrs. old. Hyfire II is 90K per burner, so 180K. Stove is overkill for this house.
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Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Black_And_Blue On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:26 pm

Is the circulation fan inside the gas furnace blocking air flow?

Doesn't explain the lack of radiant heat though, for that have to assume it's all going up the flue.
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska 140

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:28 pm

  • Would you please measure the air temperature that is leaving the room vents and post the high, low and average temperate measurements. It could be that the Carrier's blower velocity is too high to allow sufficient heat transfer from the bonnet to the air.
  • Is all of the return air passing through the Hyfire? Is the heated air blended with cool return air after the furnace?
  • If it's possible to take an air temperature reading from a point a few feet after (down wind) the Hyfire, please post that info too. edit - that would mean a measurement in the duct leading out of the Hyfire before it goes into the Carrier's cold air return.
  • Nothing has changed with the chimney/pipe arrangement from last year's setup, right?
Last edited by VigIIPeaBurner on Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Pocono Newbies On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:43 pm

Measuring air temp from the vents is my husband's next step. Just got off the phone with him, and we ARE wondering if the furnace fan's high setting for heat is cooling the air too much. When he gets home from work later today he can check, after borrowing our neighbor's tool to measure. We're also wondering if we should put the DIP switch back to the original position so that the furnace fan works on the low speed and the see what happens. Nothing's changed with the chimny/pipe arangement from last year's setup. I'll have my husband read your post to answer your other questions. He used to do HVAC and at one point owed his own company, but that was years ago. At least he'll understand the questions better than I will, LOL! Will post back.

I did discover that both blowers on the Hyfire were running, even though only one burner is lit. I unplugged the blower on the side that's not lit, and seems to have helped a bit.
Pocono Newbies
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Pocono Newbies On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:47 pm

Black_And_Blue wrote:Is the circulation fan inside the gas furnace blocking air flow?

Doesn't explain the lack of radiant heat though, for that have to assume it's all going up the flue.

Circulation fan - Another thing to check!

Radiant heat has gotten somewhat better since I raised temp to 71, thereby making the stove work harder. FR of 96 so it's been putting out some heat. Upstairs finally warmed up but the sun is helping warm the house too. Air coming out of vents still feels lukewarm, rather than warm. Temp out of vents will be measured later today.
Pocono Newbies
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:03 pm

Could your now cold quiet furnace be washing a little of the heat off as it passes over . Trying the slower fan speed would be the first test . Let us know how it works . Dave
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Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
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Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Pocono Newbies On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:36 pm

Flyer5 wrote:Could your now cold quiet furnace be washing a little of the heat off as it passes over . Trying the slower fan speed would be the first test . Let us know how it works . Dave

LOL Dave, the cold quiet furnace, love the description... :) I'll be posting back with further info, vent air temp, results of the slower fan speed, although then there's barely any air coming out of the vents with the fan on low speed.
Pocono Newbies
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:58 pm

Didn;t you say you were only running 1 side of the Hyfire? You will only get out 5-90K of heat, that will make a huge difference in heating vs. 90-180K when both burners running. I know mine does, but mine will not give off the good heat until I run both burners and it takes much longer for temps to come up.
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:53 pm

WNY wrote:Didn;t you say you were only running 1 side of the Hyfire? You will only get out 5-90K of heat, that will make a huge difference in heating vs. 90-180K when both burners running. I know mine does, but mine will not give off the good heat until I run both burners and it takes much longer for temps to come up.

Yep, that is what I understood too. Hence my post of not enough BTUs.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:11 pm

Another thread recently had similar symptoms and the last post indicated a very dirty combustion fan was the cause. Maybe this is a similar scenario.

Leisure line owners ?
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Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Where is our heat going?

PostBy: Pocono Newbies On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:21 pm

WNY wrote:Didn;t you say you were only running 1 side of the Hyfire? You will only get out 5-90K of heat, that will make a huge difference in heating vs. 90-180K when both burners running. I know mine does, but mine will not give off the good heat until I run both burners and it takes much longer for temps to come up.

Yes, only one burner. I don't think its cold enough to run the second one now, not in my area, anyway, and last year one burner worked fine, until we got into the teens, then we lit the 2nd burner until it went back into the 20s again. One burner gave off plenty of heat last year. The house is only 1600 sf!
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Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Hyfire II

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