Heat pump water heater

Heat pump water heater

PostBy: Gforks On: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:48 am

Anybody have any experience with the heat pump water heaters made by GE. I was thinking about one to replace an aging LP powervent. Lowes have them on sale for 1399.00 now. My water heater is in the basement, as is my coal stove. I was thinking of a coil in my stove, however I don't want to keep a fire all summer as the house has cetral AC. Any thoughts?
Gforks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line / Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Econo 1 / 105

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:53 am

The heat pump style of domestic how water heater will save you some money. But it's a long pay back. It cools the room it's in. An advantage in summer. If it were me I'd use the money for a coal fired boiler system, with a hot water coil or ideally an indirect hot water heater on a separate zone.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:04 am

Yes, coal would be the way to go. Towards the end of my time with the Alaska stoker I realized I was using way too much coal to heat DHW during the warmer months, plus the cellar stayed a balmy 90 degrees most of the time. A coal-fired boiler with a DHW coil is the way to go, from what I've seen. I'll be able to say for sure as soon as the boiler installation is done.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert


Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:29 am

I don't have anything against the boiler idea...but here's something closer to what you were thinking:

If you have plenty of decent quality water, such as good producing water well, go the water to water heat pump route...it won't remove heat from the space it occupies.

I've been doing it for 15 years...it works great. :!:

However...a Coal Boiler is not out of the question for me sometime in the future. :idea:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: dave brode On: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:53 pm

Old thread, but I'm looking at the Geyser, as you can place the unit where you want the cooling/dehumidification [in my case, the basement, my heat pump ductwork serves living space only]. I doubt that it would use much more wattage than the big dehumidifier that I run all summer in the basement now.

Some reading/links:

http://www.thetankatwaterheaterrescue.c ... /1769.html
http://www.cggc.duke.edu/environment/cl ... eaters.pdf



http://www.nyle.com/Geyser_Product_Information.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ5 ... ogId=10053

http://www.greenerbuilding.org/product_detail.php?cid=104&pid=188
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

http://www.hotwater.com/newproducts/index.html

Dave
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: McGiever On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:13 am

The Gyeser looks like it will do a fine job. De-humidification where it is needed anyway is even a bigger plus.

Just so it doesn't lower the temps in the area to the point where the evaporator would freeze up.
I've seen even small dehumidifiers freeze up if the area temps are dropped too much.

Guess it could be mounted higher in the room towards the ceiling for location of the warmest air.
A lot more BTU's required to heat DHW than to remove excess humidity.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: dave brode On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:51 am

McGiever,

Big block basement, garage door and and unpainted block let air in. Walk door is opened several times a day too. I have a big dehumidifier that runs most of the summer. I figure lessening the load on it [or eliminating it] will pay for much of the elec cost to run the HP. Although it doesn't get super hot in the basement, a little cooler will be ok, esp in july and Aug. Since it would only condition the space when it runs, the effect would depend somewhat on the amount of DHW used.

I also thought about doing quick disconnects on piping and run a set of lines to my upstairs atatched garage, where I could really use the cool dry air. Might sound goofy, but alternate, 2 days basment, two days garage? The thing isn't heavy.

Although I would not do it, you can also buy a kit [or dyi] to send the cool dry air into return ductwork, which would help the central air unit.


Btw, I believe that they'll sell for less to someone in the trade.
Dave
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: europachris On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:21 am

dave brode wrote:McGiever,

I also thought about doing quick disconnects on piping and run a set of lines to my upstairs atatched garage, where I could really use the cool dry air. Might sound goofy, but alternate, 2 days basment, two days garage? The thing isn't heavy.

Although I would not do it, you can also buy a kit [or dyi] to send the cool dry air into return ductwork, which would help the central air unit.

Dave


That's a good idea! I looked at those, too, and wondered because our basement is already cool in the summer and the A/C adds to it due to the cool air settling down the open stairs. Having that water heater would turn the basement into a giant walk-in beer cooler. :!: Hmmm???
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: 009to090 On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:27 pm

I've been studying the GE model for a year now. Its good technology. They even have some videos on You-tube about it. It should save about 50% electricity over a heating element style of HWH. Two thumbs up :up:

You can find them cheaper than $1399 tho.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: Gforks On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:56 pm

Well, I made the plunge. Installed the heater the Monday after Christmas. Hardest thing was to get it down the stairs and set in place. Since I was replacing a propane heater I had to run a 240 circuit also. Unit fired right up and went through diagnostics to make sure I had filled it, then started heating. I am only running it in the "E Heat" mode to maximize savings.

So far so good. I haven't run out of hot water. I did increase the default temp from 120 to 135 to approximate the shower temps I was used to. My old heater did not have numbers on the thermostat only warm,hot, and very hot. I didn't find the unit any noisier than the propane power vent it replaced.

The best part is this was something I could do right now, and the heat for the hot water still comes from coal burned in my LL Econo.

Today I just got my gas bill for 125 days. $315 $3.58 a gal from 9/15-1/18
Gforks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line / Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Econo 1 / 105

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: dave brode On: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:01 pm

Please report back later in the year and tell us how it does on it's own.

Thanks.
Dave
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:50 pm

McGiever wrote:If you have plenty of decent quality water, such as good producing water well, go the water to water heat pump route...it won't remove heat from the space it occupies. I've been doing it for 15 years...it works great.

Hmmmm. Sounds interesting. How much water, at what incoming temperature, is required to feed your water-to-water heat pump? Where do you dump the "used" water? What manufacturer made the heat pump? How expensive was it to buy and maintain?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:40 am

rberq wrote:
McGiever wrote:If you have plenty of decent quality water, such as good producing water well, go the water to water heat pump route...it won't remove heat from the space it occupies. I've been doing it for 15 years...it works great.

Hmmmm. Sounds interesting. How much water, at what incoming temperature, is required to feed your water-to-water heat pump? Where do you dump the "used" water? What manufacturer made the heat pump? How expensive was it to buy and maintain?


Around 5gpm more or less, my ground water here is 54*. BTW...The temps of the water source are not that important...you make up for lower temps by increasing the flow rate. There are a lot of btu's available in a stream of many gallons of water. My discharge temps are 39*. And I raise the DHW by 5* each pass through w/ a 1" circulating pump to storage tank.

My discharge water goes to a drain field I created specifically for it. It would be mind boggling as to how much water I have discharged in 15 years for htg./ cooling/ and water heating.

I have had a Ground Source Heat Pump which besides "water to air" has "water to water" heat exchangers.
That gives me all three...Htg./Cooling/Hot Water.

But, after a search online, I didn't see much to compete w/ the new arrival of the Air to Water units being offered now. :(
Last edited by McGiever on Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: traderfjp On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:52 am

I've been thinking about the GE unit too. I read many of the reviews and most are good. I live on Long Island and we have some of the highest electricity rates but I want to get off oil. Prices are just going to increase and it's time for a new tank anyway.

My biggest concern is the recovery rate of the GE unit in the highest saver mode. I have my wife and daughter who both shower in the moring about 10 minutes apart. Do you think the GE tank could keep up? How many adults do you have in your household?

Thanks
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Heat pump water heater

PostBy: Gforks On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:42 pm

That was my biggest concern also. I have used mine about a month and a half now, only on the heat pump only mode. I think they refer to it as the "E heat" mode. Since I live alone during the week and only have guests on the weekends. I thought I would try it. I don't know how well it would work for a family.

The recovery on paper was supposed to be, if I remember correctly, as good or a little better than my LP gas heater. In reality I don't think it is. Don't get me wrong I haven't run out of HW, but as I shower I keep turning the dial more towards hot. More so than previously. However, I am notorious for long showers. 20-30 min. Guests haven't mentioned it so maybe its my wasteful ways.

This may all change when the coal stove is extinguished for the season and the temperature drops in the basement.
Gforks
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line / Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Econo 1 / 105