Transmission issues

I have a 2000 Acura 3.2 TL with what I believe to be a failing transmission. Acura has had a class action lawsuit imposed against the company for this issue. Acura was forced to extend the transmission warranty to 7 years/100k miles. But this car is 10+ years old with 121k. And now the same issues many other owners experienced are occurring to our family car.

Big question, do I invest $3500 or more into a car with a book value between 4k-5k? Do I trade it in, buy a new vehicle only to see it depreciate $3000+ per year the first four years? If I have this car repaired, it should last another three years. It is in good condition, clean no dents or dings. It handles great is fast & fun to drive. This car sees about 20MPG. The boys & I would love to get a Ford Ranger but my wife is dead set against a small truck as she would be the primary driver. Her choice would be a similar car with better MPG. I see no reason to spend $20K for a car that can't even compete with a 10 year old Acura in comfort & handling.

My issues, I don't trust stealerships. If I take it there, they will want $5k. If I use a local shop, pay $3K I get a refurbished trans with a lousy 12k mile warranty. IF I find a Jasper rebuild, I pay as much as a dealer refurbished. Jasper refurbished with a better warranty are $3125, transmission alone. Labor extra. A guy advertises on Ebay in Brooklyn, NY sells this trans for $1500 but I would need to find someone willing to install unless I let him do the entire job but much too far to take back for warranty issues if they arise.

What would you do?

whats the actual problem? are you using the Z1 grade fluid? try a flush and filter service with amsoil atf?

as a jasper dealer I can say they are a well built unit with a great warr. you can also upgrade the warr for $125 and gain the towing, warr labor up from 55/hr to 85/hr. thier warr is 3 years 100,000 mi parts and labor ...anywhere..

are there codes set?

I can tell you what I wouldn't do.... You are concerned with "a lousy 12k mile warranty" on a rebuilt one, yet you're considering buying from "a guy on eBay from Brooklyn"? THAT's what I wouldn't do.

Obviously you love the car. I would guess that payments on a new Acura would be over $350 a month. So, $3,000 for a tranny with a 12,000 mile warranty seems to make sense.Assuming you put 15,000 a year on it, if it goes 12,001 miles and dies, you got your moneys worth. But...a warranty is just that. If it makes it 12,000 miles chances are it's going to go for many, many more. You wanna drive the fancy cars, you gotta pay!

Poconoeagle wrote:whats the actual problem? are you using the Z1 grade fluid? try a flush and filter service with amsoil atf?

as a jasper dealer I can say they are a well built unit with a great warr. you can also upgrade the warr for $125 and gain the towing, warr labor up from 55/hr to 85/hr.

are there codes set?

I acquired this car from my parents at 99k miles. ( read, far under book value in 2008 ). I immediately drained and refilled the transmission. I did use the Z1. The ATF was brown at 99k. It was brown last week when I drained & refilled it again at 121k. It got stuck in 2nd gear when she was driving a few weeks ago. The check engine code states shift malfunction. I drove it today. It appears to be running good but it did slip between 2nd 3rd shift when it was cold and has a slight delay when warmed up between 2nd-3rd. I haven't taken it into a shop yet. But with all of the info on the web with this issue, appears to be a common problem. I was only using the Brooklyn guy as an example of cost. I wouldn't buy from a guy so far from home.

Transmissions replaced prior to March 2005 usually fail again. Transmissions replaced March 2005 and later include a redesigned third gear clutch pack reported to fix the problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_TL
What does the dealer do for warranty...
Find a good speed shop that does work on Acura trannys...

In many vehicles, the 5-speed automatic transmission failed: as the third clutch pack wore, particles blocked off oil passages and prevented the transmission from shifting or holding gears normally. The transmission would slip, fail to shift, or suddenly downshift and make the car come to a screeching halt from expressway speeds.

Sounds like a local shop could do it if they are good...
Just a crappy design that seems to be repairable now...
if the motor and body are still solid...
and no major suspension work needs to be done...
tranny seems to be short money...
Rami from Brooklyn...
They do have a real shop check it out...

when you did a drain and refill did you "flush" it. running the engine and tranny so as to purge ALL the old fluid out is the best way to insure a complete transfusion. I would do it again before falling into the web based doom izm's.

I would indeed concider using the amsoil atf fluid. it meets and exceeds hondas z specs and could be well worth the ???? 100 bucks?

specially if you did it twice after a short romp between...... the 2.5 gal container retails for 99 bucks at a good napa store

Pocono, do you know what causes the ATF to turn motor oil brown? ( I don't ) When I drained it at 99k, I drained & refilled it twice each time getting out a lot of brown. And last week, I carefully ran the motor with the trans already short 4qts and was able to get an additional qt from the TC for a total of 5 qts. I am not on board with the idea of throwing another $100 at it with a hope it will solve the problem. Maybe I should use the Amsol in my Jeep Cherokee while it is still in great condition at 108K in order to assist in keeping it in great cond..

carbonization from many heat cycles causes the discoloration....

the jeep takes atf+4 type or 7176 prolly again the amsoil would be the ticket there also

We always run a tranny flush agent in the trans and thru the gear changes for 5-10 min before doung a fluid evacuation

the poor mans way of fluid changeout is to determine which cooler line is the output from the tranny by disconecting and watching which one pumps out, then leaving that one off with a several foot long piece of 3/8 fuel line stuck on it and into a waste drain pan, start the car and confirm the pump out.... naturally have an adequate supply readily available to pour in. the flow rate is not to much and you can watch the new red fluid come out . some times the cheap blue bottle dextron III fluid at walmart is used as a interm flush then the pricy stuff is flushed in after an improved road test deems the $$$...

Cap,
These things did not have proper cooling for one of the gears, I think it was third not sure. Even if you changed the fluid every 10k you would more than likely still be at this point. At our shop we have had luck with acuras that were out of warrenty still getting a trans for free from the dealer. They do want to take care of the problem. I would let them take a look at it worst case is they would deny the claim and you would be out the $100 check out fee or what ever it may be.

Option two, please don't do this do not go to the guy for $1500 you will get to do it a second and a third time this I can almost gaurentee.

You could let someone rebuild it, but that is not with out its risks, most of the time on hondas/acuras they will not quite shift the same. You need to figure out your cost per mile of this repair, say at the dealer that it is $4500 divide that by 12 months that is $375 a month, that is less than a monthly car payment of the same type of car than after that it is all a bonus.
Was the t-belt done? if so you should be in the clear honda/acuras are one of the cheapest cars to run per mile for maintance with the exception of these trans issues over a few years.
Hope this helps, Eric

P.S. I hope I don't insite a riot with some of my comments, I know there is always a dodge, or chevy out there that ran a ton of miles with no bills, but the cost per mile thing is what I see at work every day

Cap, I would look for a local shop that can do the job A-Z. As Freddy said, if a rebuild works for 12k it should be good for many thousands of miles.

Poconoeagle wrote:when you did a drain and refill did you "flush" it. running the engine and tranny so as to purge ALL the old fluid out is the best way to insure a complete transfusion. I would do it again before falling into the web based doom izm's.

I would indeed concider using the amsoil atf fluid. it meets and exceeds hondas z specs and could be well worth the ???? 100 bucks?

specially if you did it twice after a short romp between...... the 2.5 gal container retails for 99 bucks at a good napa store

I switched our '02 Accord to Amsoil ATF three years ago. The shift quality improved, and the fluid is still bright red 25,000 miles later. I also "fixed" an occasional shudder in our Lincoln Navigator transmission with this fluid...but only after the dealer flushed the trans. with Motorcraft fluid AND replaced the valvebody (did not fix the problem).

Yeah, brown fluid means that s.o.b. got REAL hot. One or every clutch pack is slipping, which generates huge amounts of heat. Heat will kill a tranny in short order, which you've discovered.

If it were me, I wouldn't spend $3,500 on a CAR, let alone a transmission repair. I bought my one new vehicle, & I'll never do it again. The insurance & taxes alone just make buying new a hobby for the rich ... at least in MA.

There's 100 billion used cars out there all over the country. My personal preference is to buy out of the salt belt, so I get something rust free & easy to work on. I also prefer anything built before '96 so when the FI takes a dump, I can slap a carb on it & still get where I need to go. I don't expect you to go that route -- they broke the mold when I was built ....

If your looking to save a buck, used is the only way. Acuras, Lincolns, Saabs, Volvos, Lexus, & Cadillacs are notoriously expensive -- so I'd steer clear of any one of those for a used vehicle. From there, there's still a million more to choose from.

My wife still drives 80 miles per day in a '86 Grand Marquis that we bought back in '03 with 68,000 miles. It now has 176,000. I've had to do the usual MA repairs over the last 7.75 years: shocks, ball joints, tie-rod ends, rotors, brakes, & electrical gremlins. I just drove it 70 miles today because I forgot my damn wallet at home after going to Advance Auto for my neighbor!

I have folders full of receipts for every vehicle I own. You can judge the quality of the vehicle by the thickness of my folders. The Jimmy I only had 2 years and it's an inch-and-a-half thick! The Marquis folder, after nearly 8 years ( will be 8 next month ), is about a half-inch thick. Goes to show ...

Throwing parts at a vehicle is ALWAYS cheaper than buying new. That's a fact! I do everything myself, so it helps to be your own mechanic. Even paying someone else, I believe it is still cheaper. I can't even tell you how many thousands of dollars I've pissed away on my '07. It's a beautiful truck, but it ain't worth it!

markviii wrote:Cap, I would look for a local shop that can do the job A-Z. As Freddy said, if a rebuild works for 12k it should be good for many thousands of miles.

Poconoeagle wrote:when you did a drain and refill did you "flush" it. running the engine and tranny so as to purge ALL the old fluid out is the best way to insure a complete transfusion. I would do it again before falling into the web based doom izm's.

I would indeed concider using the amsoil atf fluid. it meets and exceeds hondas z specs and could be well worth the ???? 100 bucks?

specially if you did it twice after a short romp between...... the 2.5 gal container retails for 99 bucks at a good napa store

I switched our '02 Accord to Amsoil ATF three years ago. The shift quality improved, and the fluid is still bright red 25,000 miles later. I also "fixed" an occasional shudder in our Lincoln Navigator transmission with this fluid...but only after the dealer flushed the trans. with Motorcraft fluid AND replaced the valvebody (did not fix the problem).

the ford tranny "shudder" comes from the demise of a lubricant additive neccessary for the clutch's used in the ford family of trannys. a company called "Dr.Tranny" makes a small red tube of the additive that will cure the shudder. in fact it called "shudder fix"! Not that im pumping amsoil but thier fluid has all the best additives in it and does indeed fix and keeps fixed a multitude of quirks. its the heat tolerance thats key also...

2005 Dodge
Caravan 4dr Automatic 45000 Black $6,999
2006 Chevrolet
Malibu LS 4dr Automatic 50000 Champagne $6,999
2004 Hyundai
Sonata 4dr Automatic 63000 Black $6,999
2004 Chrysler
Town & Country 4dr Automatic 59000 Silver $6,999
2008 Suzuki
Forenza 4dr Automatic 22000 Bright blue $7,999
2006 Pontiac
Grand Prix SE 4dr Automatic 59000 Gold $7,999
2007 Chevrolet
Impala LT 4dr Automatic 72000 Silver $7,999
2007 Saturn
Ion 4dr Automatic 30000 Green $7,999
2007 Chevrolet
Malibu LS 4dr Automatic 58000 Gold $7,999
2006 Chevrolet
Malibu LS 4dr Automatic 44000 Bright blue $7,999
2009 Chrysler
PT Cruiser Automatic 33000 White $7,999
2009 Chrysler
PT Cruiser Automatic 38000 Silver $7,999
2008 Chrysler
PT Cruiser Automatic 35000 Silver $7,999
2005 Chrysler
PT Cruiser Convertible Automatic 48000 Gold $7,999
2007 Ford
Ranger Reg Cab Automatic 34000 Champagne $7,999
2009 Kia
Rio LX 4dr Automatic 24000 Red $7,999
2009 Kia
Rio LX 4dr Automatic 24000 Red $7,999
2007 Ford
Taurus SE 4dr Automatic 54000 Lt green $7,999
2007 Ford
Taurus SE 4dr Automatic 41000 Silver $7,999
2009 Hyundai
Accent GLS 4dr Automatic 30000 Gray $8,999
2010 Hyundai
Accent GLS 4dr Automatic 27000 Gray $8,999
2009 Chevrolet
Cobalt LT 4dr Automatic 42000 Gray $8,999
2007 Ford
Focus SES 4dr Automatic 39000 White $8,999
2008 Suzuki
Forenza 4dr Automatic 29000 Silver $8,999

Thousands more, email me for the dealers name. Close to the ny border though but worth the ride. Most are either repos or rentals. We bought a 2007 Ford focus 2 years ago for $7000, was out of Georgia, 30,000 miles and spotless. I won't buy any automatics, years ago we went though having a rebuild $1800 (a4ld) on a used car we had just bought, died under warranty (Aamco) then dies again after warranty was expired but i was putting 25,000 miles on a year at the time. We just went back to this dealer to test drive a 2008 Mazda Tribute, from Florida, 22,000 miles, was asking $12,999, i may buy it but they are getting in a 2009 Ford Escape for the same price and waiting for that to get to the lot. When i had automatics, i used to change whatever fluid i could siphon out of the dipstick, then a week later do it again, you can get 80% of the fluid out with a few changes. Both of those vehicles were sold and see them almost everyday. I have heard horror stories when changing all the fluid at once, if its brown or smells like varnish, its really too late anyway, change it every 20,000-30,000 miles. Our 2001 Suzuki Grand Vitara has a drain plug right on the transmission pan(think it's a Toyota trans)that gets changed every 2 years along with the coolant. Looking at car complaints i do see a lot of complaints of the bad trannys Acura 2000-2003. Sometimes there are people whom rebuild them and know exactly the problems and offer higher performance rebuilds. That would entail buying the transmission and getting somebody to install it and sending back your core.

Poconoeagle wrote:
the ford tranny "shudder" comes from the demise of a lubricant additive neccessary for the clutch's used in the ford family of trannys. a company called "Dr.Tranny" makes a small red tube of the additive that will cure the shudder. in fact it called "shudder fix"! Not that im pumping amsoil but thier fluid has all the best additives in it and does indeed fix and keeps fixed a multitude of quirks. its the heat tolerance thats key also...

Are you referring to the AoD in the 1 ton trucks with the 7.3L diesel? I went thru three of those trannys in 100K on one of my service trucks.

At least you're not in NJ where every shop is dishonest. I let go of a 2001 Maxima after 2 dealers were obvious theives, and no idea where to find an honest shop. I lost $4000 off the book value when I sold that car cheap. I worked for Lee Myles in the distant past, the manager there was a drug addict that would sell a rebuild to a customer that was only low on trans fluid, every time. In those days it was the THM 300 and 400 trans.
I sent for a trans from Mad Dog Trans in Florida, got burned for every penny. Slick website, theives.
Then I tried to get into teaching myself how to rebuild the GM 700r4 trans, huge waste of time and money. lol. Ya really gotta go to school to do something that complicated.

I had an '86 Ford Ranger for 15 years! I pulled the 4banger motor at 165k and found an honest shop to rebuild it. That had the A4ld trans which was a little quirky, but lasted all that time. I sold that truck to a 17 yr old who blew up the trans in the first week he had it.

I'm like Smitty, I drive disposable vehicles, with no thought of collision or comprehensive. Currently still running the 91 GMC Sierra with a rebuilt 350 long block I got for under a grand delivered from Philly, from EBAY! Junkyard 700r4 in it. Now it needs front end work and all of a sudden it's winter, and I don't feel like lying on my back in gravel.
Also have a 93 Ranger, if you want reliable, go for it. Just make sure your wife drives one first, they ride rough and will bounce right off the road if you hit a chuck hole, very light in the rear.

No easy answer for you, dealers suck, and there's a million mechanics out there that don't know what they're doing.