Only 60* in House

Hello, I just started burning coal and have learned a lot by reading this board. However, I'm a little frustrated that I can't seem to heat my house above 60* no matter what I do.

Here's my setup:

Harman Mark II installed in the basement (new, installed last year)
Barometric Damper installed (not sure of the setting, opens when it's windy outside)
Chimney seems to have plenty of draft.
Burning medium white ash nut anthracite coal (got it from Jono Hardware, not sure of the make).
With the vent open at 1.5 turns my thermostat (mounted top left side of stove, above door) usually reads 300* - 350*. To get it hotter I have to open it to 3 turns.
The basement is a finished 500 square foot family room with drop ceiling. The rest of my house is about 1400 square feet (brick rancher). I keep the basement stairs open all the time and there are two vents directly above the stove that open into our upstairs living room. The stairs are on the opposite side of the room from the stove.
I keep the stove fan running all day.

I have been burning for three weeks now and have had no problem keeping a nice bed of hot coals going (I shake down and fill about every 12 hours). Anyway, the basement stays very warm, I don't have a room thermometer down there but I would guess 75-80*+. As far as the rest of the house it only gets to around 60* during the day but can drop down to 58* at night. No matter what I do I just can't seem to get the warm air to go upstairs. Any ideas?

Is your baro set with a manometer? If not it should be so you know your not allowing any extra heat going up the chimney because you have too much of a draft.

If you have your house setup for the heated air to just move on it's on and float up to heat the top floor then you might want to try bringing some of that cold air down into the basement on the opposite end of the house away from the stove. By blowing cold air downstairs it will aid in the heated air going up the vents and help get the air circulating throughout the house better.

What is the size of the vents above the stove???

No, the baro was never set with a manometer. Any recommendations?

That was my next course of action, running vents from the opposite side of the house into the downstairs family room. I guess I thought that the stairway would allow enough cold air to circulate from the upstairs.

In response to Coalfire, there are two 14" x 4" vents installed directly over the stove.

If your basement door is open that should be enough for cold air. You are fighting the drop ceiling, I agree your baro should be adjusted with a mano for best operation but, you said the basement gets hot so I would say you have poor circulation. 14x4=56 56x2=112sq inches. The manual that came with my DS recomends minimum 14x20=280sqinches, that is twice the size of what you have.

I heat close to 2800sqft ranch (uninsulated)basement included, and no problem with temps, and just the basement door open. Now we don't have a drop ceiling. basement is 2-4 degrees warmer than upstairs. I would not go cutting holes every where, maybe put a fan at the top of steps and blow cold air down and see if that helps. or walk around with an incences stick smoke should blow away from stove up high, and down low smoke should blow towards stove.

Just a few things to ponder, Eric

ezburn wrote:With the vent open at 1.5 turns my thermostat (mounted top left side of stove, above door) usually reads 300* - 350*. To get it hotter I have to open it to 3 turns.

So run it hotter -- up to at least 650* is certainly OK, but you may have to shake and reload more often.

As others pointed out, you may need bigger vents or more vents or differently placed vents to get adequate circulation. Are the vents above the stove ducted directly to the living room registers, or can the warm air disperse above the cellar's drop ceiling? Air movement on the living floor, between the vents and the stairs, should be good because it will establish a circular flow pattern. Other rooms on the main floor may stay too cold if your floor plan is not open -- warm air does not always move well horizontally especially through doorways. When a contractor installs a hot-air furnace he pays a lot of attention to vent size and placement, and I suspect the planning is even more complicated when there is no duct work and no plenum fan involved.

Just my .02 and I am burning with a stoker.

Getting the heated air moving to the desired area and a plan for return air circulation instead of relying on just convection seems to be the issue.

BTU to square footage being the other.

FWIW my ranch is small and I do not use duct work for the return air (just hole in floors with a nice grate of course), however, the heated air is ducted to each room and dampened to control each room (example bedrooms receive less flow). I think convection methods are fine for the floor level intended but moving that air is the ticket to happiness.

Just last week I helped my FIL move a wood pellet stove, 68k BTU from a basement to the first floor for a client, same situation, basement was so nice but nothing upstairs. This was a freestanding pellet stove with 135cfm fan, no air jacket for a direct plenum to the existing duct work. Sorry but 135 CFM ain't gunna cut it even if you could connect direct.

I think you need more than just two 14 x 4" vents to move the heat up and cold air down. Time to install some inline duct fans. Since you have the stairs for a cold air return, I'd start with moving the heat upstairs and what that does and if the cold air dams up somewhere, then put a cold air return vent in near there. I'd put a register boot with a 6" inline duct fan to start and see how that works.

Adamiscold wrote:Is your baro set with a manometer? If not it should be so you know your not allowing any extra heat going up the chimney because you have too much of a draft.

He doesn't have a baro problem, he has a circulation problem....

Chuck_Steak wrote:He doesn't have a baro problem, he has a circulation problem....

We don't know that he doesn't have a baro problem as he has never set it correctly or measured his draft. He could very well be sending all kinds of heat up the chimney.

I think getting an accurate reading on his draft and getting the baro set correctly should be his first course of action, if not because of wasted heat but safety.

ezburn, pickup or borrow a manometer from somewhere and get your draft set before doing anything else.

ezburn wrote: Chimney seems to have plenty of draft.
Burning medium white ash nut anthracite coal (got it from Jono Hardware, not sure of the make).
With the vent open at 1.5 turns my thermostat (mounted top left side of stove, above door) usually reads 300* - 350*. To get it hotter I have to open it to 3 turns.

Chuck_Steak wrote:He doesn't have a baro problem, he has a circulation problem....

ceccil wrote:We don't know that he doesn't have a baro problem as he has never set it correctly or measured his draft. He could very well be sending all kinds of heat up the chimney.

I think getting an accurate reading on his draft and getting the baro set correctly should be his first course of action, if not because of wasted heat but safety.

ezburn, pickup or borrow a manometer from somewhere and get your draft set before doing anything else.

I'm with Ceccil on this one. Everyone is saying it's a circulation problem but the bottom line is if he is only producing 300* to 350* of stove heat at 1.5 turn, he isn't producing much usable heat at all. Before I'd go cutting a lot of vents and chasing circulation questions I'd eliminate any questions I had about the physical stove, the draft and it's operation.

What kind of coal is it? I know from my own experience that some coal is a pain to burn and requires an awful lot of draft to burn at all. The 300* - 350* at 1.5 turns is what I was getting when I was trying to get my remaining Reading to burn. With any other coal I'd been chased from the room long ago. The fact that he has to turn the valve open 3 turns to get more heat is suspicious because that was what I had to do to get the Reading to produce any heat. When I was using the Reading my baro was reading a .04 which with another coal would have my stove producing enough heat to chase us out of the room.

Just what is his draft, he thinks it's ok but he doesn't know. Having to open the air intake valve that much to produce that little heat shows me the stove is working hard to compensate for something.

What is the outside temp? If it's 18* he may need to have the air intake valve open that far to counter the cold, just as Smitty does. Remember a radiant stove isn't every going to be a huge success at heating an entire house. As you move away from the stove the temps are going to drop. I have a 10* drop in temp between my stove room and the far reaches of my house. The stove room averages 77* and my bedroom is 67*.

Yeah, circulation of the heated air maybe be a part of the equation but I'd definitely look at the stove first.

Chuck_Steak wrote:

Adamiscold wrote:Is your baro set with a manometer? If not it should be so you know your not allowing any extra heat going up the chimney because you have too much of a draft.

He doesn't have a baro problem, he has a circulation problem....

I think the reason chucksteak said what he did, is cause his basement is plenty warm, he is merely not moving the air up.

lowfog01 wrote:I'm with Ceccil on this one. Everyone is saying it's a circulation problem but the bottom line is if he is only producing 300* to 350* of stove heat at 1.5 turn, he isn't producing much usable heat at all. Before I'd go cutting a lot of vents and chasing circulation questions I'd eliminate any questions I had about the physical stove, the draft and it's operation.

If he has poor coal, he might not get the heat, and no manometer in the world will fix that. As for 1.5 turns open for his heat output it could be entirely possible that his draft is low cause the basement is too tight and he must open more to compensate(just speculation).

I will agree with chucksteak, he has a 15 degree differance between the rooms, and we are talking about rooms right above the stove, we don't even have to move air sideways, only up the way it wants to go, and we are obivously not doing that. No doubt he will be able to fine tune his stove with a properly adjusted baro but, if it is putting off 350degrees and his basement is 75 and upstairs is only 60 he obviously has a circulation issue.

I do not discount the baro as I use one properly adjusted. I am just calling what I see.
Have a great weekend everyone, Eric

Our set-up is similiar to yours. A Cape style-1 & 1/2 story with a living room addition.We have a Harman Mark 11 in the cellar. But no ceiling tiles are in the way obstructing that heat flow,just floor boards.The heat from the stove can go up thru the floor,and now my feet are nice and toasty,as is all the floors-which is something we never got with the oil furnace.We took out the oil furnace when we installed the Harman.We have no Baro on it,it drafts well. We adjust the air draft according to the day temps and how much heat we need.We absolutely pulled out all the rotted pink insulation that previous owners did, and installed "Bubble Radiant Barrier" with the air gap space, on the walls,and crawl space walls-cost to do the cellar was $400. We didnt want the cement walls to be absorbing all that heat.The Radiant Barrier deflects the heat back into the room,bouncing around and up. We have a small $20 corner fan at the bottom of the stairs pointed up to the kitchen, and knocked out the panel on the kitchen door,replacing with hardware cloth.We are in the process of rehooking ductwork to the phlenum, where the stove sits on the old furnace pad,the phleum was left in place.We also have a Napolean pellet stove in the living room right now as that is farthest from the stove,but this set-up will most likely change.The main used rooms -open concept,stay at 70* plus,depending on the weather, the bedrooms cooler upstairs,but have installed ceiling registers which definetely helps. We have a heated mattress pad on the bed, $60, and when its colder,the bed is toasty warm,turning them on a couple hrs before we go to bed,and they use a minuscule amount of electric.Unless its absolutley frigid or windy out-we shut them off when climbing in.One of our better investments.The Harman Mark 11 is a little under what we need,but this is our 2nd season for working out all the bugs,and learning to burn with coal.We want a Harman SF now,which will put out 120,000 btu's, handle what we need and probaly more,,and eliminate the pellet stove.One of the reasons your not getting the heat,is the heat can't get thru those floor boards to the upstairs.We also have ceilings fans in the winter mode position,but use them sparingly, as they will make you feel chillier.Even though our ductwork isnt tied into the phlenum yet-they are close to the stove and by natural convection the warm air drifts up.Our living room isnt even sheetrocked yet,or the ceiling done,so we know once thats finished,it'll get even better.So work on getting that heated basement air to the upstairs,possibly you will have to go to a bigger unit though.We do lov this Harman workhorse,and hate to see it go,but someone will give it a good home when we're ready and like it just as much.

You need to get the heat moving and the cooler air back down. A fan or blower would probably help circulate it.

those 14X4 vents,I beleive are great in a single wide trailor,but if you've got a circ problem--you want to have something to let it do that--I had to use one 14X4 vent due to post & beam construction & it's nothing more then a little heat trickle--now--the other 14X20 vents,put out some heat--nah,that's silly==buy a bigger stove