Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:31 am

So .... most of you know I have a turd of a 2000 GMC Jimmy sitting outside here. I also own a '89 Blazer that uses a shitload of oil, so I hatched a unorthodox plan here ...... bear with me.

The plan is to strip down the 4.3 from the Jimmy & get rid of all the OBD-II bullshit on it & install it old school style ( carb & HEI ) in the '89. For fuel, the plan is an Edelbrock intake with a 500 cfm carb.. I'll have to rig up either a huge pressure regulator, or just a tiny inline pump to supply the carb. Now for the ignition, I want to go with a simple HEI -- just plug in a coil, hook up wires & go. This will eliminate all the misfiring problems I had with the FI / OBD-II system. Suddenly the engine becomes reliable again.

SO my questions are: Will the old school 700-R4 tranny bolt up to this late model block? What distributor assembly will fit this block? I might be able to cobble something together using the '00 base & '89 top ... not sure.

I figure I might as well make use of the turd while it's sitting out there, & I already own it. 8-)
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:38 pm

What does the '89 currently have for a powerplant? 5.7 TBI? Those engines typically last a long time, how many miles are on yours?

The late model 4.3 should have the same bellhousing pattern, but I'm not sure if the flexplate & converter will bolt up. A local transmission shop should have the answers.

As for the ignition, you can get a HEI for the 4.3:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67080/

A carburetor intake made to fit the Vortec heads is available, but you won't like the price: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2114/

I know you want to ditch all the electronics, but there is no way to lockup the converter in the 700R4 without them (there are aftermarket kits, but they are still electronic). It will run without that functionality, but personally I think that is taking a step backwards. Having been through a few engine swaps and rebuilds, my advice is to either rebuild the existing engine in your '89, or swap in something like-for-like.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:30 pm

The Blazer is an S-10 like the Jimmy, so it has a TBI 4.3 in it. I might adapt that TBI to the Jimmy motor because it will save me money, plus it's as reliable as a stone ax. The 700R4 is already in the '89 ... and after hours of looking online, I finally figured out that the 4L60E & 700-R4 bolt patterns are identical. SO I can bolt the 700 right to the Jimmy motor. 8-) Awesome! I'll just hook the kickdown cable to the carb ... or leave it as is if I reuse the TBI.

Thanks for the links! That intake is what I was planning on. If the TBI doesn't bolt to it I'll probably have to buy a 500 cfm Edelbrock for it - either way no biggie. Less electronics, the better. ;)

Now, that distributor setup will fit '96 - later Vortec's? I only says up to 95 .... I don't know if there is any huge internal differences in the OBD-II blocks? :gee:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler


Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:37 pm

I didn't realize it was another 4.3. Check on the intake, I think it says that it won't work with a TBI setup. Might be worth a call to Summit to see what they think. Be ready for other odd parts that need to be swapped...like the exhaust manifolds and/or y-pipe.

Personally I would keep the TBI setup...simple and better drivability.

-Rob
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:38 pm

Looks like I'll have to go carb on that intake. The other option is go with the marine intake manifold, which I believe would allow the TBI unit to bolt up ... and if not, allow a 2 bbl carb vs. a 4 bbl. Only issue with that is that intake weighs like 60 lbs! No joke! :shock: I'd rather lighten the front than add more weight to it, so I'll probably go Edelbrock there. I'll see if I can't find one for cheap, or used somewhere. I'm not going to tackle this until spring (barring an abrupt engine failure), so I've got plenty of time to get the cash up.

I've been out of the loop for a while -- this stuff has got BIG TIME expensive!! :shock: Used to be able to grab an Edelbrock carb for like $180 ... and I thought THAT was expensive! Now over $300 ... :wtf:

I don't mind carbs. Anyone can tune an Edelbrock - they're as simple as it gets, so I'll have that thing dialed in for the cold winter weather. Might even go manual choke for ultra simplicity. I'll have to train the wife on the use of that. She's pretty good mechanically so I don't anticipate a problem. I picked the right one there ... otherwise I'd be getting hounded for a new Cadillac like some of my buddies! :lol: All set with that!
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:01 pm

I have a 750 Holley double pumper on the shelf if you are looking for something serious. :P

I know they make the intake you want for the 5.7, but I don't see one for the 4.3. Look up "Scoggin Dickey Parts" and give them a call. I think someone makes a carb to TBI adaptor, which would allow you to use the Edelbrock piece.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: Jst a Vtr On: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:41 pm

Just curious, assuming the 89 has a steel oil pan on the engine, does
the 2000 also have a steel pan or is it cast aluminum? If it has the
aluminum one the transmission case will be different and not bolt up.
Jst a Vtr
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salvo citation, modified as an add on forced hot air
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Duo-matic/Olsen (In workshop)
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut
Other Heating: Oil fired hot air

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: SMITTY On: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:25 pm

It does have the aluminum pan, but the 4L60E is identical in every way to a 700-R4, except for the computer controlled electronics. So if the 4L60E fits, so will the 700-R4.

Now that larger aluminum pan clearing the crossmember & axle is another story .. but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: RAYJAY On: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:55 am

ok before you do any of this ...... your in mass are you going to tag and use this on the street ??? if so when doing a swap you will need the obdII and all the emission stuff off of the 2000 i would check here http://www.vehicletest.state.ma.us/ and also talk to some of the inspection stations...




Emissions Tests

The On-Board Diagnostics (OBD) Test Massachusetts uses two types of emissions tests: On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) for most vehicles and Snap Acceleration Opacity for heavy duty vehicles that are not equipped with OBD systems.

On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) tests are given to:

*

Model year 1996 and newer passenger cars, light trucks and SUVs
*

Model year 1997 and newer light-duty diesel vehicles (8,500 pounds or less)
*

Model year 2007 and newer medium-duty vehicles (8,501 to 14,000 pounds)
*

Model year 2008 and newer medium-duty diesel vehicles (8,501 to 14,000 pounds)


The Massachusetts Vehicle Check on-board diagnostic (OBD) emissions test is designed to ensure that your vehicle keeps running as cleanly as it was designed to run, which in turn protects the air we breathe.

The OBD test typically takes about 3 minutes. The inspector connects your vehicle's on-board computer to an analyzer in the station, and then downloads engine and emissions control data. The analyzer checks several OBD system functions:

Communication. Does your vehicle’s OBD system communicate with the analyzer? If your vehicle’s OBD system cannot communicate with the station’s analyzer, the OBD system must be repaired before the emissions test can be completed.

Readiness. Is your vehicle’s OBD system “ready” to be tested? As your vehicle drives, the OBD system checks the performance of various emissions-related components and systems. If the OBD system has not performed enough of these self-checks, your vehicle is “not ready” for an emissions test.

OBD Vehicles Exempt from Readiness Checks. Some 1996 and newer vehicles exhibit unique testing characteristics that prevent them from receiving a complete OBD emissions test. These particular vehicles will skip over the readiness checks and go directly to the MIL (malfunctioning indicator light) check.

Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs). Why would the OBD system turn on the Check Engine light? These indicators are diagnostic trouble codes that indicate which systems or components are not performing as designed. Reviewing these codes is the first step in diagnosing an emissions-related problem. These codes, along with other information in the OBD system, help guide emissions repair technicians to faulty parts and take the “guess-work” out of the process.

Check Engine Light. Is the Check Engine light (sometimes labeled as “Service Engine Soon”) turned on? When this light is turned on, it indicates that one or more components of your vehicle’s emission control system is not working as it was designed to work, and repairs are needed. If the light does not turn on when the OBD system tries to turn it on, this problem must be corrected.

The results are printed on the Vehicle Inspection Report (VIR), which the inspector will give you when the inspection is finished.

If your vehicle passes both its OBD emissions test and its safety inspection, it is issued a new sticker. If OBD detects a problem with your vehicle (generally indicated in advance by an illuminated "Check Engine" or "Service Soon" light), your vehicle will fail its inspection and will need to be repaired.

The most common causes of emissions test failures include:

*

Malfunctioning components that regulate fuel/air ratio, such as oxygen sensors
*

Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valves
*

Engine misfire
*

Catalytic converters
*

Evaporative controls, including poor-fitting gas caps

Sometimes, a vehicle will fail or be turned away from inspection because its OBD system is "not ready." This simply means that the OBD system did not have enough valid data to evaluate the vehicle’s emissions control system. This may be because the vehicle's battery was disconnected recently, perhaps while repairs were being made to the alternator, starter, electrical system, engine or transmission. Usually, a week of combined highway and city driving will reset the OBD system so that it will be ready for testing.

The VIR provides information that a repair technician can use to diagnose your vehicle's problem, fix it before it causes more air pollution, and spare you from more expensive repairs down the road.

Back to top

Emissions Testing of Heavy Duty Diesel Vehicles

“Snap acceleration opacity" tests are used for diesel trucks, buses and other heavy-duty vehicles that weigh more than 10,000 pounds (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) but are not equipped with OBD systems.

In this test, the inspector uses an opacity meter or “smoke meter” to measure the smoke from the vehicle’s exhaust pipe. The darker the smoke, the more the vehicle is polluting and the higher its opacity reading will be.

The inspector first secures the vehicle safely (so it cannot move) and tests to ensure that its engine governor is functioning properly. Then the inspector presses on the throttle to bring the engine up to its maximum governed revolutions per minute (RPM) several times - first to remove loose soot from the exhaust pipe, then to measure the opacity of the vehicle’s emissions.

Readings from the final three acceleration “snaps” are averaged. The final average is compared to the emission standard for the model year and type of vehicle. Newer vehicles have more sophisticated emission controls, and must meet stricter standards.
RAYJAY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VAN WERT - 600 VA HOT WATER
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN- MAGUM STOKER
Coal Size/Type: BUCKWHEAT ON BOTH
Other Heating: NG BOILER

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:08 am

Oh God,No,No No No,Smitty ! That Jonah of a vehicle could bring it's curse when you transplant it ! I know you,if anyone,can do it,but at what curse to your Life? Drive a stake through the heart of that thing and get something that is emissions based from the 60's. I think you'll be free'r to free-lance and be much prouder of what you've rebuilt. :bang:
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:07 am

:lol: Yeah that is true ... but actually the parts of the vehicle that were cursed were the entire emissions system. If I lived in any other state besides CA, I'd still be driving the thing. It seemed every time it was due for inspection, the light would come on the day before. :mad: Lots of the interior parts were junk as well, but that stuff is easy to mickey-mouse. Electrical parts were junk too. I had to wire up this abortion of a system to get the headlights to work again one day. Wife had to come home on a flatbed because she gets out of work late, then the headlights don't work! That was fun. Tied it in to a high-beam dimmer switch out of a '70 Nova. :lol:

As far as inspections go on the '89, it's safety only - no emissions testing on anything older than '96. 8-) I'm actually surprised MA does this. This is the ONLY good part about this state! This was my whole reason for buying something this old. This way, if the motor blows up I can put whatever engine I want in it, & the wifey still makes it to work. With the Jimmy, if they hook that wire up at the test station & everything isn't 200%, you fail ... then the cops pull you over every other day & you get to pay the "hidden taxes" MA is so famous for.

One of the first things on my mind was a V8 conversion. If I have to have a 4-stroke engine, a V8 is the only way to go .... but the parts required to do the swap are just more than I want to spend ... and then I have to go and buy a V8 ( suppose I could yank it out of the 'Camino ... :gee: ) Then there's the 22 year old tranny & differential -- don't need those exploding on a 5° morning.

Jst a VTR has me nervous now ... because I did some searching & found that there is some difference with the '98+ 4L60E's compared to the older ones. Only one way to find out for sure though. Trying to find info online is a royal pain in the ass. I was on there for hours yesterday weeding through a ton of BS on some other forums. Someone HAS to have done this swap before .....
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:11 am

I was going to do the same thing and after all is said and done, both Jimmy's are resting peacefully and are schredded up and possibly becoming a gravity fed hopper feed steam pellet burning fiasco.... 8-)
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:13 am

:D

So I shouldn't have a problem bolting up a 22 year old 700R4 to the '00 4.3 ?
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: Poconoeagle On: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:17 am

well Johnny, when you pull out the switch does all three headlights come on??? :D

I believe the bellhousings are not compatible. but with a drill and tap and $$$$ to burn :roll:
Poconoeagle
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Buckwalter & Co. , EFM520
Stove/Furnace Model: No. 28 Glenwood 1880, Alaska

Re: Late model GM 4.3 fitment question. The JIMMY motor!

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:22 am

Damn! That throws a wrench into things. Yeah maybe I can mickey mouse that with the drill. We'll see.

Might be doing a V8 conversion after all ....
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler