I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: david78 On: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:05 am

Lifted AWD Astro? Is there a pic of that on here somewhere? If not, we need one.
david78
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Fuller & Warren Splendid Oak 27
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: LiftedAWDAstro On: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:13 am

I don't think I did...Mine is the green one...photobucket link.
LiftedAWDAstro
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker 160
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: freetown fred On: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:30 am

outstanding--looks like you've got yourself some suspension there ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix


Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: rouxzy On: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:17 pm

I was heavily invested in NG futures and made some money but last spring pulled out because I was losing some money. Right now the US storage capacity is full and tankers are being filled and floated out in the Gulf waiting for the price to come back up. It will take a major catastophy or economic turn around for NG to come back up in any significant way. Two years ago I was enjoying shares at over $21 each, the last I check they were in the $3 to $4 area. NG users will have it on their side for a while until like I said something major happens.
Tom
rouxzy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut / Anthracite

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:05 pm

I haven't read alot about the recent nat gas finds in the Marcellus Shale formation that are driving the ng prices through the floor. I do know there's little to no regs on the ng people and the drilling continues. This article says there's enough to supply the US for two years if 10% is recoverable with current drilling techniques. Like Woodn'coal said, no pipes here make it a no brainer.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: Bratkinson On: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:28 pm

For me, using coal rather than my high-efficiency gas furnace is close to break-even. But then, I'm comparing heating the house to 65 when I'm up and around, and 55 when in bed or at work with the gas, vs 70/63 with coal. And coal has the benefit of a 'continuous' heat, rather than the varying temps of a thermostat controlled gas furnace. With coal, the floor is warm, the chair is warm, the walls are warm, etc. Not so with gas.

But think back a couple of years, when gasoline "took off" and the price of fuel oil went through the roof. "We" (the American public) were stuck paying the high prices and couldn't do anything about it. Hey....look around...gasoline is just touching $3.00/gal these days, up $.50 in the last 8 months or so! (eg, 20% increase!). The price of oil can be manipulated just like natural gas can be manipulated by 'investors'. In short, it won't be long before the NG "gang" start raising their prices after re-setting the hook!

In twenty words or less...why would the natural gas suppliers "settle" for x$ per 100,000 BTU when oil suppliers get x+y$ per 100,000 BTU? It's marketing, pure and simple. The lowest price gets the most customers. But then they get greedy. And, in case it slipped past a few of us...the oil companies are looking BIG TIME into buying natural gas fields, NG companies, etc! No suprise there, I guess.
Bratkinson
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: rockwood On: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:53 am

brckwlt wrote:I switched from ng to coal last year and my ng bill per year was roughly 5500 a year and for coal I'm paying less then 2500 a year. I pay roughly 190 - 200 a ton delivered.

Don't forget the up-front cost of a new boiler/furnace. It could take a number of years to break-even.
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: DOUG On: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:44 pm

Well I'm seeing natural gas becoming quite atracive here in Pittsburgh, PA. and it is a domestic fuel as is coal. It was only 6 years ago that the high natural gas prices started me looking into solid fuel.

Now after running the numbers through the NEPA Fuel Comparison Calculator, I was shocked to see such a drastic savings if I had used only natural gas.

Just this season, with my current fuel prices of anthracite and natural gas here in Pittsburgh, I would have saved $315.00 this season if I only used natural gas rather than anthracite. Wow! Back in 2005, I would have saved around $1000.00 if I had used anthracite rather than natural gas.

Anthracite coal prices would have drop to $187.00 a ton or I would have to use a natural gas furnace less than 65% efficient to equal the same anthracite fuel cost at the current price of $240.00 a ton here in Pittsburgh. What is going on here? It is definitely making me wonder where to spend my hard earned money?

I have the same 92% efficient natural gas furnace as I did in 2005 but now even more efficient coal burning appliances and it is still currently less expensive to use natural gas rather than anthracite coal. Just for fun, I also ran the numbers for using purchased split hard wood and found that I would have saved only $90.00 this season if I had only burned purchased split hard wood rather than natural gas. To me an only $90.00 savings isn't worth all of the effort with burning purchased split hard wood.

So, I am quite perplexed? My natural gas price has dropped to $1.10 per Therm. That is including all of the taxes. Anthracite coal prices are expected to go even higher because of the diesel fuel delivery cost. What is one to do? This is really making me think this up and coming winter heating season. Hum?

Any thoughts? :?
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:49 pm

Burn NG and keep your eye out for basement coal on Craigslist. Maybe burn a little coal to keep the basement warm and let NG shoulder the big load. Keep your coal equipment ready for when the pendulum swings back to coal.

Last thought, have you priced out a load of bit?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: DOUG On: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:08 pm

Yes I have priced out bituminous coal and even used a ton this past season and I'm not planning on using bituminous coal again. I'd rather burn wood than the bituminous coal that is been available here in Pittsburgh, PA. It is so difficult to get good burning, consistant batches, and the added dirt plus ash removal is not worth the equivalant cost of using natural gas.

So I guess I'll tune up the coal furnaces, stock some anthracite this summer, and only fire them up when the natural gas prices get higher than anthracite coal. But for some reason I have a difficult time believing that the anthracite coal prices are going to get lower than the natural gas prices here in PA anytime soon.

Has anyone tried converting their coal furnace to natural gas? At these current prices of anthracite and natural gas, it has me wondering. Hum? Maybe I have a new project? :P
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: Berlin On: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:12 pm

as mark mentioned, if you really want to save money in western PA, you'll used bit. decent bit coal can be had within an hours drive of pittsburgh for 60-100/ton.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: DOUG On: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:10 pm

The current bituminous coal here in Pittsburgh, supposedly the good stuff, is $135.00 a ton. Now don't get me wrong, I have used this bituminous coal from the very old local supplier, Kiefer Coal and Supply, and they get it from the same supplier about an hour away, and they can't seem to get a consistant batch. Sometimes it is big, sometimes it is all small and like dust, but every once and a while a truck is delivered just right. But even when it is great, there still is a lot of coal dust that falls off of the coal and there is so much more ash than when I burn anthracite. I guess that I've gotton spoiled with anthracite. Anthracite is so much cleaner, gives a more contant burn in my hand fired coal burning appliaces, and there isn't as much ash to remove or anywhere near the amount of dust. Plus the wife isn't screaming what are you burning down there, plastic? Stop it right now! bop2

So, I guess using natural gas isn't as bad as using foreign oil. It appears to be a domestic product from Pennsylvania, like coal. I just hope our PA boys are getting employed to supply the natural gas, like our coal companies do. ;)
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:54 am

sounds like your coal supplier needs to do better and supply you guys with a decent, consistent product. You'll have soot and smoke, but there's NO good reason why a coal supplier that knows what he's doing can't supply a good high btu, low/mid coke button, bituminous lump or egg coal; there is especially no good reason why he can't supply one lower in ash than most anthracite - easily. In pittsburgh, you'll probably pay 135/ton, but drive an hour or so outside and you'll find good stuff for no more than 100.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: traderfjp On: Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:23 am

I wish natural gas was an option in my area. I'm 600 feet from a main and the cost to bring it to my house is 30k. I'd have to get 6-8 homeowners to agree to committ to natural gas and then the gas company would consider it.

If I was you I would hest with gas and then use coal as a supplement heat.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: DOUG On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:44 pm

Well, it has been almost a year since this post was talked about. With this past years very mild winter, plus the higher price of anthracite coal and the low price of natural gas, I didn't even purchase or burn one once of anthracite this season. I don't even have any anthracite coal in stock! I can't even believe that I'm saying this? I did burn 3 cords of purchaced hardwood in my new D.S.Machine stainless steel wood boiler though and it sure did the job well this past season, but not even as cheap as natural gas though, about $100.00 more. Figure?

I've been closely watching my gas bill pricing and it has maintained a steady $1.10 per therm for a year. Anthracite coal has jumped up to $250.00 per ton bulk picked up and purchased split hardwood went down a few dollars, $175-$200 per cord depending on how well seasoned it was. When I started buying anthracite in 2007, it was only $165 per ton bulk picked up, wood was the same price, and natural gas would have cost me $900-$1000 per month to heat the house to 64 degrees. This year natural gas only cost me around $265.00 per month heating the house to 72 degrees, but it was much warmer than it was in 2007.

So, I'm now pondering over making a non electric natural gas fired furnace to supplement heating the house by gravity, like a wood/coal furnace or stove does, and in the case of power outage. I like to having non electric heating stuff and thought that this maybe an intersting project. I've been slowly putting something together over the past year and a half and plan to show it when it is finished. Until then, I thought of just asking if anyone else has traveled this route or may have any ideas I may incorporate into the system?

So far it is a cast iron furnace, like a giant pot belly stove, with double lined jacket designed for gravity warm air flow, 100,000 Btu gas burners with standing pilot, modulating gas valve with a milivolt thermostat. Once I get it further along, I'll post some pictures. Until then, it will be under wrap and take a lot more time to complete. The most difficult obsticale has been with slowing down the straight through passage of the flue gases. I've been experimenting with many different internal baffle designs and just haven't come up with the best solution as of yet. Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks. :idea: :)
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600