I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:28 pm

Doug...
I am and have been using the very thing you speak of...
No electric, maintains set temps, very efficient...
It is a floor furnace...
http://www.google.com/search?q=gas+floor+furnace&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: rockwood On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:49 pm

Why not have a supply of wood or coal for power outages? If I recall correctly you have experience with soft coal which might be an economical back-up heat source...?

I once lived in a house with a natural gas floor furnace like Capecoaler mentioned. They work well but the floor grate can get very hot....the soles of my shoes had grate patterns branded into them :shock:
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:13 pm

But that is the fun part...
Nice for gettin' dry after a shower...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove


Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: rockwood On: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:09 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:Nice for gettin' dry after a shower...

They do work good for that 8-)

The one we had was in the center of the house and had a large rectangle grate. Cool air was drawn down through one half of the grate and the warm air out the other half.
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: Bratkinson On: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:26 pm

Here in the Springfield MA area, NG is definitely cheaper per BTU than burning coal! I still had 2.5 tons left over from the 2010-2011 season, and didn't even burn that up this season as it was so mild! I still have about 500 pounds left!

As for next season, with NG so low and my 11 year old high-efficiency gas furnace ready and willing, I'll probably stay with gas...until the next power outtage. The wet snow/slop we got just before Halloween had me wishing I had a hand-bomber instead of a stoker! I could see my breath in the living room! I now have a Honda generator ready to go to give me heat (via coal) refridgeration (fridge), microwave, and a couple of lights, plugging/unplugging stuff when needed. So I'll probably pick up a ton this summer and that's it.

With future expectations of shale oil and gas becoming big time available the past couple of years due to fracking, I don't see the cost of natural gas coming back up unless the EPA decides to shut them down due to gas in water supplies (see burning water article in todays MSN.com) account fracking. And the cost of shipping PA coal to MA prices out to $300/ton, give or take. So NG looks better all the time.

But I -really- prefer the constant temperature of coal rather than the 3 degree swing when using NG. Maybe I should hope/pray for cheap gasoline to lower the transportation cost of coal?
Bratkinson
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: DOUG On: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:27 pm

Yes, Natural gas is becoming very attractive now with all of this drilling and surplus. I've been following the process over the past year and watching my bill. Just last July, a local Supermarket chain here in Pgh, PA, Giant Eagle, installed a CNG, Compressed Natural Gas, Filling Station for owners of natural gas vehicles. They also converted their fleet of 20 tractor trailer delivery trucks to run on CNG! Interesting? This has got me thinking too, CNG conversion? The cost to convert a gasoline vehicle will end up paying for itself in about two years at the current gasoline price of $4.00 a gallon. Hum?

I like the steady even heat provided by coal and wood too. So, I've been actually actively researching what a natural gas conversion burner set up will provide by installing a gas burner in the coal/wood furnace? Just from using the NEPA fuel comparason calculator, my gas conversion coal furnace would need to be less than 60% efficient to equal the price of burning anthracite coal in it if I purchased anthracite coal locally here Pgh, PA. Hum again?

So I been running the calculations for converting a coal furnace to natural gas from some of the old HVAC installers manuals I have from the 1950's. Interesting stuff these old timers did in the day. After shopping for some of the needed parts for a gas conversion, it appears that a simple gas conversion can be completed for around $500.00 for a non-electric gravity unit, a little more if electricity is requierd. A simple millivolt gas valve with pressure regulator, a thermoplile to control the millivolt wall thermostat, a gas burner rated for the specific square foot of furnace radiating surface, a thermiser inline before the draft hood to increase efficiency, and a draft hood to an exsiting properly sized chimney is all that is required. For extra control, a commercial oven thermostat can be added to the mix to regulate the burner flame for a more continous lower fire setting, giving the gas conversion similar attributes of a manually operated coal fire.

I'd like to give it a try just to see if it works as well as they said it does in the books for gravity warm air furnace heating plants. It definitely has me considering it. Any thoughts?
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:19 pm

By working out the possibilities I think you have the basis for a great business in converting heating units to gas.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: lsayre On: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:30 pm

Better check the Federal and State laws before you convert your vehicles over to CNG. This old man got into serious trouble with the law for not paying road taxes on his old Rabbit Diesel, which he had converted to run on vegetable oil. I wonder if the CNG station applies road taxes to their fuel?

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/enemy-of-the-state
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: gorpot On: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:07 pm

If I had Natural Gas available to me in my area, I sure as hell would not be fooling around with coal, but my only other options where I live is Electric, Fuel Oil, or Propane, and they are all alot more then coal. So until they put a NG line up my way I will stay with Coal. Still got the stove going. Suppose to be in the 30's and low 40's for highs the next 5 days.
gorpot
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaskan
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: fastcat On: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:43 pm

gorpot wrote:If I had Natural Gas available to me in my area, I sure as hell would not be fooling around with coal, but my only other options where I live is Electric, Fuel Oil, or Propane, and they are all alot more then coal. So until they put a NG line up my way I will stay with Coal. Still got the stove going. Suppose to be in the 30's and low 40's for highs the next 5 days.


Fill out the rest of your profile so we know where "up your way" is. :D
fastcat
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Nut/Stove Mix

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:05 pm

Cheap NG means the SSM operations will be in overdrive... ;)
The bins will be full this summer...
The NG will be running for the weird spring fall seasons...
Coal will still rule for the prime heating season...
With the twins Cuban heritage I think the house will need to be on the warmer side...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:20 pm

Where I live I have a NG line about 500 feet from the house. The cost to get a line to my house is 30k. However, if I can get 5-7 neighbors to convert they will put the line in for free and I can get a credit on an install. I'm seriously thinking of getting some signatures to make this happen. Here are my choices.

1. Get signatures and put in a new NG boiler

2. Add a pellet stove to the basement

3. Buy a new energy effecient oil fired boiler.

A coal boiler makes the most sense on paper but I have my mother living in the basement and I would need two egresses to make it legal and also it would be a pain to tend to a coal boiler.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:23 pm

This is all well and good...
Until demand catches up with supply...
Then the prices of NG will be the same or more than HO...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:59 pm

Maybe! No one knows.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: I'm thinking of going back to natural gas

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:26 pm

Take a look at the reports of the NG storage capacity...
And the forecast increase in demand from the utilitys...
The pull out of the dry gas drillers and the reduction in even the wet gas drillers...
LNG exports...
NG will not stay this low for very long...
Take advantage of it now but don't invest in it for long term payoff...
We already have gas and the existing appliances...
so for convenience the gas will be run in the spring and fall while the prices are low...
The SSM operations will be in full swing...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove