water temp and lubrication

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: bleecker On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:22 pm

Thanks Stokerman,

1. I can set my L4006A at 240, and I never get water temps above 140.
2. I do have a mixing valve for my domestic hot water coil.

If I switch to either the L8124A or L7224A, do I need to change my curc pump controllers? I have checked out my current wiring situation. It seems fairly simple. The aquastat contols the blower/auger (or the oil burner). The circ pumps are contolled by my thermostats. There is no interface between the aquastat and the circ pumps. From what I can gather from reading, the L8124A or L7224A will require some connection to my thermostats: is this correct? Can I assume that the schematics for either the L8124A or L7224A will be sufficient to get me through this job? I am fairly handy if I have good directions.

Thanks again,
Eric
bleecker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: DF 520

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:38 pm

The L8124 can control 1 circulator, it will also keep the circulator from pumping cold water. If you have mutlable pumps a switching relay would work. On the triple aquastat their are L1 L2 for power in, B1 B2 to supply power to the burner/stoker motor, C1 C2 for the circulator pump, ZC ZR is what I use to my switching relay, and t t for low voltage for the room thermostat .
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:43 pm

You may want to run the circulators off the triple aquastat so you don't pump cold water. How many circulators do you have ?
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:05 pm

From the EFM manual:

520 Wiring.jpg
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Can you get a model number off your current circulator relays? You might be able to make them work with a new triple acting aquastat. if not, a simple solution is a new triple acting aquastat, and a 2-zone relay box for the circulator pumps...like this: http://www.pexsupply.com/Taco-SR502-2-2 ... -1965000-p

If you decide to upgrade the relay(s), I would get a box with room for a few extra zones.

-Rob
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:15 pm

If the circulators are controlled by tstats, then the cooler return water starts up the stoker, which runs until it hits high limit. Since the boiler never gets above 140, then you have too much radiation or heat loss for your stoker settings, or the gauge isn't working.

Try putting your stoker to 10/9 air and see what happens.

Another thing, do you have both returns piped in the back as well as a bypass line between the return and supply?

You have 3 oil ports on your geardrive. Two at the connecting rod ends and one, located just behind the large gear on the top side of the blue iron body which holds the long shaft. Use the same 90W oil that's used in your gear drive.

Also, did this problem just start happening, or was it like this since new?
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:10 pm

bleecker wrote:1. The boiker shuts down at 140.


I read this as the stoker shuts off when the water temperature reaches 140...not that the stoker runs constantly and the water temperature never goes above 140.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: bleecker On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:27 pm

Again--many thanks.

1. I have two zones with two separate circ pumps.
2. The two circ relays are Honeywell RA832A's, one looks much newer than the other. I have a suspicion that my installer went "parts bin" on me when he installed the system.
3. You are correct--The aguer and blower shut off at 140, though the circ pumps will continue if the zone is calling for heat.
4. I have been down the road with two different plumbers about the bypass pipe. Both insisted that I don't need it. They both said that they would install the bypass, but it would be a waste of money. I don't like to argue with experts, and I don't like to waste money. However, if you guys think that a bypass would help solve the problem, I'll do it.
5. I have had "weak" heat since the boiler was installed. I have tried to deal with the guy who did the work, but he can be a real prick. He won't do service calls after the warrantee is up--too long of a drive. It's not worth it for him. How is he still in business? I don't know . . .

Stokerman: When you said try 10/9, is that 10 teeth and 9 air?

Thanks again everyone for tolerating the weak arc in my learning curve.
bleecker
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: DF 520

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:43 pm

Eric, is the EFM your only source of heat? Where are you located?

I just looked at the Honeywell literature for your relays, and I think it is time for an upgrade. A controller like the one I posted earlier is easy to install, and will interface nicely with a triple aquastat. If you plan on doing the install yourself, be sure to follow the schematic for a boiler with a tankless coil.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:54 pm

bleecker wrote: However, if you guys think that a bypass would help solve the problem, I'll do it.

I don't see why you would want a bypass, you want the hottest water, should pump away from the top of the boiler. Does this thing ever have a timer on it ? Did you try (in the mean time) to turn up the aquastat to 160 and the differential to 20. IF you do wire a L8124 to the system (GOOD IDEA :idea: ) the wiring diagram by markviii posted would be the way to go. Set the triple aquastat at 180 high 160 low and 10 differential when you are wired up and you should see an improvement. Where are you from and can you post any pictures ??? :)
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: Sting On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:04 pm

bleecker wrote: However, if you guys think that a bypass would help solve the problem, I'll do it.


Has anyone asked you or have you ever posted your EXACT supply and return manifold temperatures while the load is calling for heat?
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:48 pm

You are correct--The auger and blower shut off at 140, though the circ pumps will continue if the zone is calling for heat.


Look no further, there lies the problem. Install a triple aquastat wired according to the schematic in the EFM manual. Set the low to 170 and the high to 200 with a 10 degree differential. Bet that solves it.

Regarding the bypass line:
Reasons for Using Both Return Lines and Bypass Line

Page 15 has the wiring diagram:
http://www.efmheating.com/manuals/DF520 ... lation.pdf
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:57 pm

Your current problem is not caused by the lack of a bypass line, but certainly the bypass line and dual returns do affect the system ... and... the function of the aquastat.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:29 pm

OK, I now know what bypass you are refuring to, IT would seem to mix the water better ,but, the returns would have to be equal in length, (path of least resistance) Still not causing a big deal. :)
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:27 am

If you would switch to a Taco switching relay, Taco makes a load sensor that plugs into the relay instead of using the triple. It senses the outdoor temp and the water temp to determine how much heat to make for the load. I know nothing of them, never seen anyone using one, more to go wrong ???http://nepacrossroads.com/about14355.html#p161276 Taco's pc700http://www.taco-hvac.com/en/products/PC700%20Boiler%20Reset%20Control/products.html?current_category=150
AA130FIREMAN
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axeman anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: 130 anthratube

Re: water temp and lubrication

PostBy: blrman07 On: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:14 am

He stated that no matter where he sets the temp the coal feed and blower go off at 140... that tells me that the temp controller is stuck. I had the exact same problem with my sons boiler. No matter where we set the temp the boiler came on and off and cycled at 130-140. We could put it at 100 and at 130 it came back on. We put it at 200 and it shut off at 140. You can do one of two things. Shut the unit down and get that temp controller changed or try smaking the bejesus out of it to try and unseat the internals on the controller then make arrangements to replace it. A sticking control can restick even if you unseat it. The bad part is that it can reseat at a much higher temperature. Change that temp controller to something else even if it is the same make and model.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.