Harman Super Mag cold air return question

Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: schoolhouse On: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:57 pm

Hi and thanks in advance for any help!
I have been gathering info from the many posts for quite some time. We think we are ready to purchase a Harman Super Mag and wondered if it is possible (or advisable) to connect the cold air return directly to the unit? Thanks again.
Eric
schoolhouse
 

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: coalkirk On: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:15 pm

The mag does not have any provision to connect a return. I don't know about the super mag but the original mag had a connection for a 6" supply duct.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: Coalfire On: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:52 pm

Hi schoolhouse,
Welcome to the forum.
How many sq feet are you going to be heating? Is the stove going in a basement? If you want to tap into ductwork, it may be more advisable to go with something like a hyfire II or koker. Just some thoughts, the mags do not have very large distribution fans on them.

Good luck, Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut


Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: schoolhouse On: Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:35 pm

Wow! Thanks for the quick responses. Our application is a brick, one room schoolhouse that we are converting into our home. It is built over a crawlspace. Ceilings are 12' and the inside dimensions are 26 X27. We plan to build a shed roof addition off the eave side. Dimensions will be 28 X 16 and will be over a basement. There will be one door from the schoolhouse to the addition. Our hope is to get the warmth from the stove (placed at one end of the school room) into the addition. I really don't know much about heating. I did read that the cold air needs a way to get back to the stove, which made sense. Currently there is no ductwork at all. I thought that I might be able to put some vents in the rooms in the addition and then place a cold air return in the basement of the addition that shoots it up to the stove, and in the process, draws the heat into the rooms above. Not sure if this will work. Not too sure my description is very helpful either. Thanks again. Eric
schoolhouse
 

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: Coalfire On: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:16 pm

What heating system is in currently? I think I understand your setup, basically it is 2 rectangles with a door in between. How wide is this door going to be? I think before I would run any duct work I would try it and see what happens. Take incense sticks, light them and see which way the smoke goes. up high it should be going away from the stove, down low it should be going to the stove. If not then you can go from there. If you try this little trick you will know what the air flow is doing in each room.

Just a thought, Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: schoolhouse On: Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:23 pm

Right now we have an old Franklin stove. It takes the chill off in the school room, but not much more. We hope to start the addition sometime in 2011. The door will be approx. 4'. I am hoping to avoid ducts, but thought they may be needed for cold air return to help draw the heat through the door and into the addition. We would be really happy to avoid them altogether if we can still get a good heat distribution.
schoolhouse
 

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: Coalfire On: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:28 am

I see you are changing to a stoker, why not stick with a hand fed? Are you going to like the noise from the stoker fan running 24/7. They sound queit in the showroom, but not so quiet at home. I mean it is tolerable and you get used to it. Would you consider a larger circulating stove? Perhaps a DSM circulator with a hopper. Easy 12+ hour burn times and work very well. Not trying to change your decision, but if you are struggling with a old hand fed I could understand why you would want to go to a stoker, but your modern handfeds are nothing like that old stove. One other consideration is where are you from? Do you get frequent power outages?

Have a great day, Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:57 am

If you are putting it in your upstairs living area, the blowers are normally on the bottom of the back of the stove, so the air circulates pretty good back to the stove. No return air duct work is normally needed unless you are hooking into your duct work like in a basement or something.

On my hyfire, I connected my return air pipes directly to the inlet blowers....
Hyfire II - Return Air

As for sound like they said, the combustion blower runs 24/7, the stoker, on/off every so many minutes, and the hot air blower will either be on/off or vary in speed depending on your model. The stokers do not run/heat without electricity.

Good luck.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: schoolhouse On: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:25 am

That's a good question RE: stoker vs hand fed stove. My wife and I have been talking through the merits of both. The one we saw in the showroom was not running, but there was a pellet stove in use. We did ask about the noise. The dealer indicated that the Super Mag would be quieter than the pellet, due in part to the fact that the distribution fan speed can be controlled. However, we don't have any real world experience with the noise level of the Super Mag or any stoker. Am not sure what a DSM circulator is. Will google it. We live in NW PA and have been very fortunate when it comes to power outages. Thought we would pick up some kerosene heaters for emergency use. I am encouraged that the stove should not need the cold return to be connected at the stove. The input has been great, and very helpful. Thanks! Eric
schoolhouse
 

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:40 am

Yes, I think with the sealed combustion on the Magnums, the combustion blower is much quieter and if the heat blower varies, you don't get the full blast sound of that blower. The stoker units can run 24/7 as long as you fill with coal and empty the ashes. You can probalby get 1-3 days without doing much.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: Coalfire On: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:25 pm

A stoker you put in coal and take out ash. A hand fed you put in coal and take out ash, the only thing is on the hand fed you have to shake the ash every 12 hours or so. They both have adv/disadv, stokers will have more temp control faster as they have a small bed of coal burning. Hand fed in my opinion generally have a better feel as they are radiant heat vs more or less forced air. Stokers have fan noise and need electricity. Hand feds do not. Stokers can be started easier and shut down easier. There are pros and cons to both, you have to judge what will work for you.

DSM is a stove made by the amish, tubes go through the fire box for good natural air circulation. They have a hopper for longer burn times, and a thermostat to keep the stove at a constant temp. A couple of members on here have them and love them. It doesn't have to be a DSM just give hand feds a good look at. On older friend of mine wants to get rid of his 1year old stoker, he had a hand fed, and went to a stoker, now wants to go back to a hand fed. Said the noise bothers him to much. Most people get used to it but it is always there.

Just some more food for thought, Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: schoolhouse On: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:04 am

I really appreciate the help. I did check out the DSM site and noticed that the model with a glass window doesn't have a fan yet is a circulator. Do the tubes in the firebox circulate the heat well? Eric
schoolhouse
 

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: Coalfire On: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:59 am

schoolhouse wrote:I really appreciate the help. I did check out the DSM site and noticed that the model with a glass window doesn't have a fan yet is a circulator. Do the tubes in the firebox circulate the heat well? Eric


Yes they do circulate well. use the search box for DS to find out who has them and PM them to get opinions other than mine.

Have a great new year, Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: MURDOC1 On: Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:27 pm

As far as ducting a cold air return to a new Super Magnum Stoker, it may be difficult to make an actual connection to the convection blower... The blower on these new 'Supers' is actually underneath the bottom floor plate of the stove outer body in a housing to include an air filter before the blower... I have not physically seen one on the bottom side so I don't really know what the level of difficulty would be to make such a connection or if there are any provisions for ducting to the blower, but I think the blower/filter setup literally sucks air up off the floor from the underside of the housing, can't get much lower to floor level... On the older Magnum Stokers (older as in they were just discontinued last season after a 20 or so year run with little design change other than the front door) the convection blower is a 135 CFM Fasco or Dayton blower unit and it is mounted at the bottom rear of the stove with the blower inlet out in the open (no filter) and able to be connected to like WNY has done with his Hyfire...

If you have a local dealer close by, go have a good look at the underside of the unit and make your determination if you would be able to connect a return duct to what is there... I personally would hesitate to ask the sales guy if this could be done, my own experience is not very good with them when it comes to Q&A about that sort of stuff... Truth is I don't think too many dealers even know how to get one lit let alone custom options after the sale!!! Just my 2 cents...

P.S.- If it must be a stoker, consider Leisure Line, the owners are here on the forum and answer any and all questions you may have about there stoves etc... Their customer service gets an A+ in my book...

Murdoc
MURDOC1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska/Franco Belge/Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: S.S. 2/ 144.08.02/ Mag Stoker

Re: Harman Super Mag cold air return question

PostBy: bksaun On: Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:32 pm

If it cant be done easily, just find a used Mag Stoker. Most are in good condition.

Check out what I did with My Channing III,

Pictures of your stove

Bk
bksaun
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid, Gentleman Janitor GJ-6RSU/ EFM 700
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503
Coal Size/Type: Pea Stoker/Bit, Pea or Nut Anthracite
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer/ EFM-Gentleman Janitor
Stove/Furnace Model: 503 Insert/ 700/GJ-62