Can We Burn Wood Pellets in a Vermont Castings Vig II?

A crazy question? Perhaps, especially on this particular website...but here goes: I had a wonderful little $600 Vermont Castings Resolute coal/wood stove 30 years ago, and it was a gem. For one thing, it had a hopper. To burn wood, you removed the hopper. I made a big, expensive mistake when I bought the Vigilant II three years ago, because it was at the height of the oil price rise scare, and I was told that the coal stove I really wanted was not being shipped outside of Pennsylvania that year--we'd have to buy something else or wait for another season. We live in Maine. Fearing the cost of oil rising further, we settled for the hand-fired Vigilant II, against our better judgment. I knew it was too big for our square footage, and I knew it didn't have a hopper--two major drawbacks--but we proceeded to buy it and pay for a chimney and hearth pad to be added to the house. The Vig II is obviously oversized for our little ranch-style house, no matter how slow we try to keep the fire (back damper closed to 1/2" when the fire is going full blast). This year, we reduced the firebox as described in a video by someone on this forum (a person I bless daily) so that this year our livingroom temp has remained in the low- to mid-70's, rather than the unbearably high 80's. We are fine with this. However, we are overwhelmed by the ash disposal problems, the dust, and the downright filth everywhere in the house that result from dealing with coal-burning on a large scale. Because we lack a hopper, we are adding coal many times a day in cold weather, plus needing to slicing and remove ashes from the firebox and the ash pan so frequently that the stove area is a mess, despite constant whisk-brooming and vacuuming. Hauling coal in 40-pound bags from the garage is too much for my husband now that he's approaching 80, so he hauls it inside in two trips of half-bags. We need an alternative fuel. We could get rid of the stove, which was a $4,600 investment (stove, chimney, and installation), or we might try to adapt the Vig II so that it's more user-friendly. Recently I learned about pellet baskets, and I wonder if such a thing could be used in our stove as an alternative to coal. I realize we'd probably have to replace the small metal plate in the back of the stove, which is used, we were told, when burning wood (theoretically illegal now in this stove) or bituminous. Is there any safety negative to using one of these pellet baskets, the smallest of which holds about 12 pounds of wood pellets? Please be kind--I've advocated burning anthracite for many years to anyone who would listen, but Vermont Castings did customers like us a real disservice when they discontinued their little hopper-fed Resolute. Unfortunately, it never occurred to me to look for a used one, which might have been the ideal solution for us right from the start. Regardless, we're stuck with the present situation. Thank you for any advice you might be able to offer.

I burn pellets and corn and other condensed pelletized cheep stuff -- but not in a stove.

I know a little about the little logs in bags - just a little --

if you switch to pellets you will just have more of the same mess oftener as the fuel burns faster

move the appliance to a different location where the dirt is manageable - and duct the heat into the living space - or get a different appliance more suited to your use - its location- and your fuel choice.

Sorry -- no silver bullets to offer

Hi, I don't know if you can burn wood pellets in a Vig.11 but I know that this stove could be very easy to manage with a smaller fire chamber.Mine can idle from 200*F to 600*F + if I want, temp. on the griddle. Feed every 12 hrs, shaking /sclicing once during a 24hrs time. On warmer temp. it can burns just 4 to 5 pounds for 12 hrs. The stove is in the living room and is and should be dust free. I use a maple tree pail to feed the stove. The quantity of anthracite is so small that I had to calibrate the pail with marks at : 4, 7, 10 and 12 pounds when full. every body is able to lift a so small pail and no mess when dumping that in the stove. Well, the problem is that Vermont castings could have a very good Vigilant 3 if they only wanted.
Back to your case, your stove must run with the stove's damper completely open or fully closed, not 1/2 closed. With a smaller fire chamber like mine or like the one Vig11peaburner have you should be able to control your stove for a very low temp.burning. When I modif. mine it was supposed to be for warm out. temp. but it works so well I keep the small fire chamber all the winter.
If I were near you I would resolve your problem for free just to have you satisfied with your Vermont Castings.
Best salutations Madame

I think nortcan's advice is best, but you could also consider burning Biobricks or Envi blocks. They are compressed wood just like pellets only brick size. Much less ash, clean and easy to handle. They burn very hot.

Yes this version of the Vigilant can throw some serious heat You didn't say what stove temps or stove pipe temperatures you're experiencing. Please post back with those measurements. What kind and size coal are you using? The stove should be able to be run at a comfortable heat output with coal in the winter time.

The "(back damper closed to 1/2" when the fire is going full blast)" statement needs some clarification. If you are speaking about the air inlet on the lower (your) left, the metal flap that covers the air inlet hole is controlled by the bimetallic coil adjusted by the silver rod at the top of the stove...

• 

...this should/can be adjusted to the just-closed position when the stove reaches an output you need. Try closing it down to just-closed, when the flap just touches the stove back, by moving the rod to your right. It will open after the stove cools to reach that temperature.
The bimetallic coil will relax and open the flap again allowing air to feed the fire again. I can idle down to ~300 by progressively closing the air. At the low temps, I can go 24-28 hrs on one loading. I measure the stove temperature as the manual says, in the middle of the top loading door (700*f is max)...

• 

If the air flap is always open, there's a good chance your blowing heat up the chimney and wasting coal. I run my stove at max during all of the cold weather. I only need to refill to the top of the bricks twice daily with about 20-25 Lbs each time. With the coal I now have, UAE Harmony, the ash pan need be emptied only once daily. I never brush any spilled ash but vac it up with a vac equipped with extra fine filtration. Some use a drywall filter that stops the spread of dust from the vac exhaust.

The internal damper should be either open or closed depending on your heat requirements. I always close it during winter burns as it gives longer flame path and gleans more heat out of the coal. In the spring and fall with a small fire, I leave it open to "dump" heat up the chimney combined with window stats to stay comfortably warm. In either mode, the thermostatic air control pictured above is readjusted to maintain the stove temperature.

I'm glad you found my (i think you're talking about mine?) crappy little video helpful

Thanks very much to all who replied. You've provided us with plenty of suggestions on how we can improve the relationship with our nemesis, the Vig II. Until now, it's been lurking in the corner devouring fuel. (I think I've heard it chuckle from time to time at the mistakes we've made.) First, I need to clarify that the damper (I call it the flap) behind the stove is the one we always leave open; it sounds like that's been our major mistake. Two seasons ago someone on the forum guessed that we had too much air entering the stove, possibly an air leak of some sort--turns out he was quite right, except that we were causing the problem.

We've never understood how the low-tech coil thermostat in the box behind the stove was supposed to work. People up here burn wood, not anthracite. (In fact, the young man who installed our stove called the coal "anthrasitic"--not exactly the voice of experience. Once I finish loading the stove, I always return the porcelain handle to the down position to close the stove pipe damper, but we've been leaving the back flap open or half open, and then sometimes leaving the handle up and the ash pan door open to get things going--clearly overkill, air-wise.

Yes, VigIIPeaBurner, it was your video that enabled us to reduce the temperature in our livingroom to a comfortable level. The entire time we've had this stove, I've compared its maintenance to the ease of dealing with the Resolute, and my mantra has been "It shouldn't be this demanding or this messy!!" The reduced firebox has made a huge difference, but we've still been using coal at a record pace. We buy pea coal in 50 lb. bags.

The temp on the stove pipe ranges between 200-300 degrees. We were told that the true temp is 100 degrees higher. That's plenty for our home--higher than that and we're forced out of the livingroom by the intense, dry heat. Of course, that was before we learned about how to use the thermostat, so if we use the thermostat properly, we might be able to make the fire full-size and not too hot. Til now we've always feared that if we closed the back flap completely, the fire would go out, which it has on occasion for lack of fuel and too much ash making a crust under the burning coal.

Once again I think the forum has saved the day, and I only wish I'd inquired sooner about our problem. Still, Maine has plenty of winter left. Thanks again.

You're very welcome

Just an added note about my experience running my Vigilant II. My chimney is a straight shot up 6" stainless steel double wall insulated 16' high set up. I too often burn pea to slow the draft under certain conditions (it's all in my handle name ) but have been burning mostly nut these last few years. When I measure the stove top temperature at ~700 as in the picture above, my exhaust temperatures measured on the pipe surface will be ~ 180 +/- 5 or 10*. I never see >200* when the internal damper with the white porcelain handle is closed.

Good luck and feel free to ask any more questions. We'll be happy to offer more suggestions to resolve any problems you might come upon.

Just an update to say that over the past few days we've followed the suggestions from the forum (thank you, all), in particular adjusting the air intake to the "just closed" position while using the smaller firebox setup described in VigIIPeaburner's video on spring/fall burning. That worked pretty well in this small house, but now that winter has set in for real here in Maine, we'd resorted to using space heaters in the back rooms of our 1,000 sq. ft. home where the indoor temps were at just over 60 degrees, too chilly to be comfortable. With days in the 20-30 degree range, we decided to go back to a full firebox and give that a try, using our new-found knowledge about the air intake. We also referred to Nortcan's videos, although his modifications to the Vig II have put it in a totally different league. Ours is still primitive and messy. With a clean stove and a full load of coal (to the top of the grates) we have a steady blue flame at the moment. Top of the stove temp is just under 400 F, air intake is just about closed, etc., but the livingroom is, once again, unbearably hot. It's 82 at the sofa, 78 at the desk, and 22F outside. The only other thing I can think of is that the nut size coal we're using is allowing too much air in, and maybe we could hold the temp down if we tried some pea. I just don't know. I still think it's too much stove for the house. Thanks again for all the help.

Do you have carbon monoxide detectors in the house? Forgive me if I missed this in your earlier posts. If not, please get them as soon as possible. The detectors and one or two thermometers are necessary tools to keep you safe and to monitor the output temperature of the coal stove.

Some options come to mind to try with your Vigilant II if it's still putting out too much heat for your space with a full size fire. Be sure that you have the thermometers and CO (carbon monoxide) detectors mentioned above. Please post back with the temperatures of the stove top measued in the middle of the griddle when/if you try any of these suggestions. Nortcan's modifiacation have esentially put an insert inside the stove to reduce the firebox size and the combustion air path. My modifications are very simple and have worked for me in my house but it's three times your size. These suggestions might work for you too I hope ...

• You are correct about trying pea size coal. Pea caol will burn a bit slower than nut and the heat output should drop down a bit but it could eventually catch up to where nut size output temperaturs were.
  • No pea sized? The idea of using pea size is to reduce the space between the coal pieces enough to slow down the air speed between the coal pieces and reduce the fire temperature. Richard, the "Mayor" of this forum, suggests that you can sprinkle a little bit of ash on top of the nut to gain the same effect until you can get some pea size to try.
• You can try closing down just one or both sides by using plates and bricks on the side of the firebox. If you have and the stove is still generating too much heat, keep the stove in up draft mode, don't close the internal damper on the stove's left side allowing some heat to go up the chimney. When/if you do try this, you must continue to close the thermostatic air intake down until the stove is producing the heat you need. Don't go over 700*f, 500* max might be better with the smaller sized firebox. I think 500* is where Nortcan runs his modified stove. You might get clinkers if you burn a small fire too hot.
• It sounds like you've tried this ... Place a magnetic thermometer in the center of the cast iron top. Your "just closed" setting might have to be lower. After an hour or so, keep closing it after it reopens. Keep closing it down until you get a reading of ~400*F on the thermometer. Wait a minimum of an hour before you record the thermometer reading, it takes a while with coal to respond to little changes. Your stack temperature measued on the stove pipe should stay at ~/less than 200*F at this point. What is your stack temperature with the stove top at ~400*F?
• If you can't hold the temperature down by trying one or more of the above, it's possible that you might have an air leak as was mentioned by a member last year. In the Vigilant II, it could most likely come from a bad gasket or door latch adjustment in the ash drop door. Do you get any clinkers now?

It also sound like you might be having trouble circulating the heat from the stove throught your house. If you can discribe you floor/room layout, we might be able to suggest some ways to move the heat out of the ~80* living room.

Yes, we have a carbon monoxide detector--just one because of the size of the house. We have a magnetic thermometer on the griddle, and it measures 250 on the surface right now. We just added coal up to the top of the grate. Prior to that, the running temp this evening was right around 400. The first season that I contacted the forum, we were running at about 600+, so we've slowed things down somewhat since then. With the two-sided firebox reduction, we never got the stove above 250 on the chimney. And speaking of the chimney, it's stainless steel, a run, I think, of ~16' from the stove collar through the ceiling and the roof to the requisite distance above the roof. It's a new installation, no leaks anywhere that we can find. My spouse replaced all the gaskets this season.

We can easily pick up a bag of pea size coal to try. We had used this size initially, but we had a problem keeping the stove going (that was 2 seasons ago), and we thought the larger nut coal would allow more air through and help keep the fire going, which it has

We had considered using just one set of plate and bricks, as you suggest. That could be our next experiment.

We've had a chronic problem with an ash crust building up quickly just above the grates, and this has been the source of much of the ash cloud that seems to filter its way through the house. Fighting this crust has been the main reason for our constant maintenance: when the fire burns without noticeable heat near the stove, one of us uses the slicer to break up the crust, then shakes the grates. Sometimes within 60-90 minutes, the other of us comes along, notices a lack of heat, and uses the slicer again to keep the fire going. We've never had a day when we haven't struggled to keep the fire from choking on ash buildup. We've had to empty huge amount of ash, a full pan twice a day, on average, with ash mess everywhere. This was a surprise to me, based on my experience with the Resolute. With nobody home all day, that little stove would go without attention from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. Not possible with the Vigilant.

Having watched Nortcan's video, I'm reminded that we do not clear the grates through the fettle. It's difficult and awkward to lift out, plus our slicer is so worn that it no longer has the needed hook on the end for moving the ash fettle out of the way. Instead we open the doors and slice through the grates, at a downward angle, until we get no more ash resistance (crunch). Then, of course, when we shake the grates afterward, we get at least 1/2 a pan full of ash. I also use the slicer to pull out the gray ash that builds up just behind the grates. This clears away ash that will not fall into the pan when we use the grate handle. We have found that (duh) fuel and air are the critical components to keeping the stove going to the point where it provides heat. I've resisted leaving the damper handle up because I have difficulty "wasting" heat that goes straight up the chimney. It runs counter to my Yankee-ness. We've done it temporarily to cool things down a bit, but as you noted, temperature changes take a while to establish themselves. It's not a quick fix.

The other thing I've done recently is turn on the ceiling fan in the livingroom to try and move the hot air, and it seems to help. Our house is a basic rectangle with a kitchen and livingroom at one end and a center hallway leading to three bedrooms at the other. The two bedrooms at the far end of the house (doorways about 30' from the stove) are cold. One is used as an office, so that's a problem as far as working in there at a computer for any length of time--the cold is noticeable. I've thought of putting a stand fan at the livingroom end of the hallway to push the air more aggressively down to the other end of the house. I don't think a small doorway-type fan would do the job well enough to make a difference.

In short, as you can see, the stove has become our winter hobby, and it's far from a perfect alternative heat source. On the up side, the last time the oil man came by to fill our 250 gallon tank, he delivered just 41 gallons, and there's something to be said for that.

Hi, do you have the owners manual for your stove? If not you can download it at Vermont Castings site in Coal Stoves, lot of infos. When doing the seal job, did you made the dollar test at all doors and at the top lid? If you have gap at the top lid verify to be sure the lid is straight flat by placing a level on it at many points. Some VC stoves have lids not flat,mine did. If you have leaks at the top lid you can replace the metal gasket with a bigger regular one, softer than the original one so it fits better, I did as you can see on the vid. You mentioned you burn with the grate full If I understand correctly. When loading the stove the best results are when you fill up to about 1" lower than the top of the rear fire bricks The stove is easier to control with a deep bed. Also have the stove pipe connector sealed, there is a big gap there. Can be fill with cement or rope gasket. You also could make a test by blocking the gaps in the front horizontal grill(the part retaining the coal) with big 3/4 gasket ropes. It's where all my modifs began before replacing that front horizontal grill with a steel plate to have a closed fire chamber and avoid air from bypassing the coal bed.
It would be nice to have Vermont Castings or else making a modification kit for the Vig11. It would be so easy to make and could also be adjustable: from standard to small fire chamber according to the temperatures changes and personnal needs. A kit for all custommers...
Have a good hobby
nortcan

isfj45 wrote:...>8...In short, as you can see, the stove has become our winter hobby, and it's far from a perfect alternative heat source. On the up side, the last time the oil man came by to fill our 250 gallon tank, he delivered just 41 gallons, and there's something to be said for that.

Yes, with just a 41 gallon fill I'll bet he had a lot to say about that when he was out of ear-shot! It is a great feeling. I agree with your Yankee feelings about "wasting" the heat up the chimney. It's akin to opening a window in an 82* room to let the heat out so we'll not be over heated.

The quality of the coal is very important toward easy heating. Crunch ash can be a problem. Is it by chance Reading coal? Do you have another coal dealer available that has coal from another supplier? I've used Reading for years and sometimes their product is especially hard to shake down with the Vigilant II's non-aggressive grate action. Reading I've used almost always produces crunch ash. Of the bagged coal I've tried (and there hasn't been a lot) Blaschak and Kimmels has had flaky soft ash that shook down easily. Another thing that can cause crunchy ash is too much fiddling around with the coal bed. I find that if I leave it alone the ash is much finer. I've been shaking down only once a day and removing one pan of ash daily. I top off two to three times a day and do the shake/slice routine in the early evening. I can do this because I'm using the best coal I've ever had. With Reading, I'd be shaking down & taking out at least two pans a day and dealing with crunchy boney ash.

Using the knife takes a little technique to keep from spilling ash out of the front of the stove. I never knife when the fire is near the bottom of the grill. I'll wait until the fire looks like this...

• • 

  I use the knife (i've gotten away from using the dowl shown in the old videos) in a horizontal manner and point the tip down at a slight angle. On the inward stroke of the knife, I start at the bottom of the fettle. I do short inward stabs of an inch or more to push the ash inward toward the grate tips until the fettle is cleared of ash. I do this for each section beneath the grill. When that is cleared, I push/stab the knife into the ash bed beneath the fire keeping the horizontal knife surface on the fettle. I'll often use the posts on the fettle (the nubs the grill rests on) as a folcrum to support the knife as I slice right and left. On the out stroke, I lift the knife so that the top of it brushes gently against the bottom of the grill. Keeping the knife against the bottom of the grill uses the grill as a wiper to clear the top of the horizontal knife of any ash sitting on top. When I'm done knifing, shaking and refilling, my fire will look like this...

  • 

  Nortcan's replacement of the grill with a 1/2" thick plate has eliminated all this fuss. My wife and I just enjoy feeling and seeing all that glowing cheery radiant red heat too much to eliminate the grill. A lot of positive functional comments can be said about his plate mod!
  
  I try to minimize ash dropping out of the stove during the slicing process by pulling the ash pan front out about 3/4". That way, when ash falls out during the slicing process, it tumbles down the ~ 3/4 gap behind the ash pan front and falls into the ash pan, not the stove lip or onto the hearth. It catches most of it. Another tip that Stoneyloam uses is to place a cookie sheet (I'd recommend a jelly roll pan) under the stove. He pulls it out to catch anything that falls out while he slices and then pushes it back under the stove so it's more out of sight. Maybe someone with a file can refurbish that knotch in your kinfe. That will make hooking the slot in the ash pan front easier although mine is worn away too but it still works okay.
  
  When doing ashing operations through the double front doors, be sure the stove damper is open to the full up draft position. Before you slice, close one of the double doors. This will concentrate the moving air through a smaller space and pull drifting ash up into the stove. Most of the rest of it should fall behind the ash pan front and into the ash pan. All this sounds like a lot of trouble but once you get it down, it's a short process.

Moving the heat around your house is a necessity. From the door ways of the cold rooms, try placing a small fans (i've used 8" round fans) on the floor and face them down the hall toward the stove room. Turn the fan such that it blows the cold air down along the floor toward the hotter room. Cold air is more dense than warm air and displacing it will cause the warm air to move into fill the void. This can feel drafty but it's okay in a hall way because you don't usually spend a lot of time there. I have one bed room that I've use this technique with and it helps get more warmth to the room.

here's what I use to move heat to the main part of my house: Anyone Have This Extra Quiet Doorframe Fan?

last post on this thread

Vig11PB, very good informations. Should help.
yes I lost the bottom fire viewing but... the stove still much nicer now for us now. Gained a lot... lost a part of the fire view. Usually we still have nice blues and red glowing as seen on the photo in: a good or not so good idea.
keep on the good help.
nortcan

rewinder wrote:here's what I use to move heat to the main part of my house: Anyone Have This Extra Quiet Doorframe Fan?

last post on this thread

Hi rewinder, may look bizz as a question but I would like to know what is a kickspace blower. Just a French question LOL.
nortcan