Advice on Franco Belge 10.1475

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: kruppie On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:49 pm

Thank You very much for the replies.
I am going to take the advice you have given. My hopper is in mid position, will be set to high this afternoon. My knob and fresh air damper is probably grossly misadjusted. I believe I also have made another observation. The 'pot' on my FB is warped in the front, common on this stove. This opens a gap between it and its support. This gap will effectively let air bypass the coal bed and go up the stack. That effect is probably minimal when the burn starts but as the ashes build more air would tend to take this shortcut [path of least resistance] cutting combustion AND diluting the hot exhaust, thereby cooling the stack, further triggering the vicious cycle I seem to be getting stuck in. My chimney is brick with a is 6" terra cotta flue located on the outside of the house. One of you guys spoke of stack temperature. If it is possible could you tell me its temperature when you are burning at a moderate rate? Or any temperature on the stove. I have a thermocouple connected to a multimeter, which is accurate and tolerant to several hundred degrees. I just would like a point of reference, I am nearly color blind so 'orange' coal means nothing to me, hot also seems quite subjective. I mean in November I installed a barometric damper in the stack and the bar code sticker from the hardware store is still on it and shows only minor browning. Thank You again because I am not getting a full nights rest with this thing and this Thursday they have predicted below zero weather here in PA, would be really nice to have this thing humming along while sleeping, peacefully.
kruppie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Liesure Line
Other Heating: EFM Oil Hydonic
Stove/Furnace Make: Liesure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:44 pm

kruppie wrote:Thank You very much for the replies.
I am going to take the advice you have given. My hopper is in mid position, will be set to high this afternoon. My knob and fresh air damper is probably grossly misadjusted. I believe I also have made another observation. The 'pot' on my FB is warped in the front, common on this stove. This opens a gap between it and its support. This gap will effectively let air bypass the coal bed and go up the stack. That effect is probably minimal when the burn starts but as the ashes build more air would tend to take this shortcut [path of least resistance] cutting combustion AND diluting the hot exhaust, thereby cooling the stack, further triggering the vicious cycle I seem to be getting stuck in. My chimney is brick with a is 6" terra cotta flue located on the outside of the house. One of you guys spoke of stack temperature. If it is possible could you tell me its temperature when you are burning at a moderate rate? Or any temperature on the stove. I have a thermocouple connected to a multimeter, which is accurate and tolerant to several hundred degrees. I just would like a point of reference, I am nearly color blind so 'orange' coal means nothing to me, hot also seems quite subjective. I mean in November I installed a barometric damper in the stack and the bar code sticker from the hardware store is still on it and shows only minor browning. Thank You again because I am not getting a full nights rest with this thing and this Thursday they have predicted below zero weather here in PA, would be really nice to have this thing humming along while sleeping, peacefully.


I have seen cast iron melt and have seen it crack but I have never seen it warp. The front edge of that fire basket is slightly rounded while the back edge is straight. Could it be installed back to front? Could there be a cinder or something else keeping it from seating properly? The grate support on the left side could be hung up on a bolt that holds the shaker handle cover. It has to go under that bolt end. The basket sits flush with the flange that the door butts against with a small dividing line that fly ash settles in, making it hard to see. If you have an air leak there then that fly ash will not settle there. If all else fails you could butter that joint with furnace cement.

Both the Franco Belge and the Surdiac stoves have a pretty efficient heat exchange leading to low stack temperatures. At moderate burns you can easily hold your hand on the stack. This in turn causes the draft to suffer except when firing hard. Measured with a probe inserted into the smoke pipe it would be nice to have about 350 degrees, or a surface temp. of 200 to maintain draft and to prevent condensation in the chimney, which is corrosive.

Set up the barometric damper to stay closed except under high draft conditions such as when it is very cold and windy. A sign of poor draft is after you have shaken down thoroughly the fire remains sluggish even though the air flap is wide open.

Richard
.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: kruppie On: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:14 pm

Thank You Richard
The front opening I have sealed (this afternoon) with a woven fiberglass strip we use on our boilers at work. I stuffed it down into the gap and we'll see. I am going to probe the stack temperature soon here. I also found the fresh air damper was adjusted such that my numbers were half. The position at 8 is now at 4. So therefore as I was advised in this great forum another guy was running his at about 4.5 I would need a 9 with my existing settings. Currently I am set for 5 and the temperature at the point where the sheet metal top section meets the left side panel ranges from 156.7 to 167. In all likelihood there is sustained oscillation in the fresh air damper as it regulates. I guess as this thing loads up with ash the fresh air damper slowly opens to allow more air ingress. I am temped to do a time-lapse photo shoot of it. Anyway I got this thing lit at 4 pm today and we'll se how it does through the night. And I also noticed that I don't need to clean the glass with oven cleaner, seems it cleans itself (from a black to a cloudy anyway), the coal fire burns the creosote from the wood starter fire.
I Thank All you folks in here, I need a good nights rest, not worrying about this thing going out and setting off the CO monitors
kruppie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Liesure Line
Other Heating: EFM Oil Hydonic
Stove/Furnace Make: Liesure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

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Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: capecoal On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:39 am

I own a FB 10.1475 and I recently my CO detectors are going off. I recently bought a new detector just in case my old one was sending out false alarms. I checked my stove and all gaskets and connections seem OK. I get good draft so the flue seems OK. The only thing I notice is that the front glass door does not close as tightly as before but it still closes OK. I have been putting aluminum foil over the glass internally to keep it clean while starting the fire (recommended in manual) and thought that this may have compressed the gasket surrounding the door. Also would an incorrect setting on my damper allow small amounts of CO to enter the room setting off the detectors? I have them well away from the unit as well.

Another question is there a way to adjust the door latch so that it pulls the door shut more tightly.
Thanks----Joe at Capecoal
capecoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco belge
Stove/Furnace Model: 10-1475

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:12 pm

capecoal wrote:I own a FB 10.1475 and I recently my CO detectors are going off. I recently bought a new detector just in case my old one was sending out false alarms. I checked my stove and all gaskets and connections seem OK. I get good draft so the flue seems OK. The only thing I notice is that the front glass door does not close as tightly as before but it still closes OK. I have been putting aluminum foil over the glass internally to keep it clean while starting the fire (recommended in manual) and thought that this may have compressed the gasket surrounding the door. Also would an incorrect setting on my damper allow small amounts of CO to enter the room setting off the detectors? I have them well away from the unit as well.

Another question is there a way to adjust the door latch so that it pulls the door shut more tightly.
Thanks----Joe at Capecoal


The latch on the door pivots on an eccentric bolt which by turning you can make the door tighter or looser. Open the door and look for a square headed set screw that locks the pivot bolt in position. This screw is at right angles to the pivot bolt. Loosen that set screw and turn the pivot bolt to adjust, and re tighten when the door is tight.

Now is the time to make yourself a sheet metal shield to place over the door opening to allow you to keep the door open until it cools enough so you can work on it or to clean the glass. Dimensions are 8 1/4 by 20 3/8 inches. Add about 1/2 inch or a bit more to the 8 1/4 dimension to allow for a right angle bend on the top to hang on the door opening. You will also need to put a screw with lock nuts near the top center to give you something to grab with a pliers to put it on and off. Better still a piece of sheet metal formed to fit the shaker handle like you see on the ash pan and attached with two sheet metal screws. To make the bend first score the metal and slowly hammer it over a piece of metal or wood that has a sharp corner.

By allowing the door to cool the bolt and screw will be easier to move. Use a bit of penetrating oil and remember that vibration is your friend.
Put tension on the screw and then tap your tool with another tool to set up vibration. Try in both directions until it loosens.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:33 pm

kruppie wrote:Thank You Richard
The front opening I have sealed (this afternoon) with a woven fiberglass strip we use on our boilers at work. I stuffed it down into the gap and we'll see. I am going to probe the stack temperature soon here. I also found the fresh air damper was adjusted such that my numbers were half. The position at 8 is now at 4. So therefore as I was advised in this great forum another guy was running his at about 4.5 I would need a 9 with my existing settings. Currently I am set for 5 and the temperature at the point where the sheet metal top section meets the left side panel ranges from 156.7 to 167. In all likelihood there is sustained oscillation in the fresh air damper as it regulates. I guess as this thing loads up with ash the fresh air damper slowly opens to allow more air ingress. I am temped to do a time-lapse photo shoot of it. Anyway I got this thing lit at 4 pm today and we'll se how it does through the night. And I also noticed that I don't need to clean the glass with oven cleaner, seems it cleans itself (from a black to a cloudy anyway), the coal fire burns the creosote from the wood starter fire.
I Thank All you folks in here, I need a good nights rest, not worrying about this thing going out and setting off the CO monitors


See my post about making a sheet metal shield to use when starting a fire and to use when cleaning the glass. Keeping the glass clean not only makes the fire nicer to look at but releases much more radiant heat.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: capecoal On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:12 pm

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the tips on adjusting the latch. I toyed with the flat head screw prior to sending out my SOS, and it did not move. I like your idea of penetrating oil and vibration, this should loosen it a bit. The stove is off now because of the CO questions I had posted as well. I have a call into the installer to ask about the draft door position.

On a side note you have a lot of knowledge about FB stoves. We should call you the "Coal Miester". Seriously thanks for all your help.

Joe
capecoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco belge
Stove/Furnace Model: 10-1475

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: capecoal On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:46 pm

Richard,

Just took a look at the adjustments you mentioned. I found the square headed lock bolt (about 4-5mm) at right angles to the latch bolt, and I will try to free it up and adjust. Just one question, in your explanation you mention that the latch pivots on an "eccentric bolt". Is this what appears to be a slotted flat head screw that holds the latch onto the door? If so I will have to free it up as well.

Thanks---Joe
capecoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco belge
Stove/Furnace Model: 10-1475

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:53 pm

capecoal wrote:Richard,

Just took a look at the adjustments you mentioned. I found the square headed lock bolt (about 4-5mm) at right angles to the latch bolt, and I will try to free it up and adjust. Just one question, in your explanation you mention that the latch pivots on an "eccentric bolt". Is this what appears to be a slotted flat head screw that holds the latch onto the door? If so I will have to free it up as well.

Thanks---Joe


Yes the flat head is the eccentric bolt. You can't tell if it is frozen until you release the square headed set screw. The flat head bolt through the door pivot is not threaded, but is machined eccentric so moving it moves the pivot closer to or farther away from the flange the door butts against. You then lock it in position with the square headed set screw.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: capecoal On: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:58 pm

Richard,

Got it! The set screw was not frozen and I was able to adjust the handle to tighten the door. Once again thank you-----Joe
capecoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco belge
Stove/Furnace Model: 10-1475

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:37 pm

capecoal wrote:Richard,

Got it! The set screw was not frozen and I was able to adjust the handle to tighten the door. Once again thank you-----Joe


As long as you have the stove off and you have had a CO problem you should really inspect it well before putting it back in service.

This means taking off all the panels and inspecting everything for cracks or open joints. The panel above the door pulls straight off. Use a flashlight both inside and out to see if light shines through. Put a small light into the flue passages to see if any light can be seen outside.

Put the thermostat on one, plug the smoke pipe exit and light a small piece of paper and throw it in and close the door. See if any smoke leaks.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: capecoal On: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:16 pm

Hi Richard,

thanks for the tip on raising the hopper to its highest setting in my FB stove, it works great now on settings 4-5 as you suggested. One other problem I am having and that is once in awhile my CO detector goes off especially when there is weather change and a low pressure front moves through. Can I attribute the problem to the weather change or do you think I should investigate the stove fitting for gaps. The stack, doors, window, all seem tight so I am open for suggestions as I really dont want to fool with carbon monoxide situation.

Many thanks for all you help,

Joe
capecoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco belge
Stove/Furnace Model: 10-1475

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:06 pm

capecoal wrote:Hi Richard,

thanks for the tip on raising the hopper to its highest setting in my FB stove, it works great now on settings 4-5 as you suggested. One other problem I am having and that is once in awhile my CO detector goes off especially when there is weather change and a low pressure front moves through. Can I attribute the problem to the weather change or do you think I should investigate the stove fitting for gaps. The stack, doors, window, all seem tight so I am open for suggestions as I really dont want to fool with carbon monoxide situation.

Many thanks for all you help,

Joe


You are going to have to find out the cause of CO leakage. Take off the side and rear panels and inspect the exhaust channels and clean out covers at the corners. I think you can get enough clearance to inspect without removing smoke pipe. The hopper cover gasket should seal if in good shape.

An intermitant down draft in the chimney could also be a cause. A steady low draft would make maintaining a fire difficult, especialy a low fire. Do you get a sulfer smell at any time? Oversize chimney can be a problem. A manometer would be nice to measure draft. Use a match flame to guage the strength of draft with door cracked open, should suck the flame in. You can also check other areas the same way or use cigarette or other smoke. Maybe incense stick.

Even with a leak in the stove there should still be negative draft if that leak is not too large. I would check everything but I would suspect poor draft.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: capecoal On: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:53 pm

Yes, I do get some sulphur smell. The CO alarms went off when the fire started to die out. For some reason the fire was going great for 4 days without a problem and then it just started to die even with cranking the setting to 8 and allowing some air in the lower ash door.

I will try some of you tips on finding the leak if there is one. I will try the incense stick trick. I will take the side panels off but I cannot get the bolts on the side cover baffles off. They are set tight. My local dealer said that typically these will snap off so what he does is to get a long hose that he attaches to his shop vac and snakes it around the curve in the side flues. Really dont want to do this till spring but I just may have to if my CO detector keeps going off.

Will let you know----Thanks===Joe
capecoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Franco belge
Stove/Furnace Model: 10-1475

Re: franco belge 10.1475

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:56 pm

capecoal wrote:Yes, I do get some sulphur smell. The CO alarms went off when the fire started to die out. For some reason the fire was going great for 4 days without a problem and then it just started to die even with cranking the setting to 8 and allowing some air in the lower ash door.

I will try some of you tips on finding the leak if there is one. I will try the incense stick trick. I will take the side panels off but I cannot get the bolts on the side cover baffles off. They are set tight. My local dealer said that typically these will snap off so what he does is to get a long hose that he attaches to his shop vac and snakes it around the curve in the side flues. Really dont want to do this till spring but I just may have to if my CO detector keeps going off.

Will let you know----Thanks===Joe


You don't have to take the clean out covers off now, just check for leaks. To remove the knurled nuts when the stove is cold, a few drops of penetrating oil then grab the nut with pliers and work gently in both directions while tapping the pliers with another tool to set up vibration until it loosens. Coat with anti-sieze compound when putting back. If the gasket is damaged you can butter the outside with furnace cement which is easy to crack off the next time you remove the covers.

It really sounds like the grates are ash bound. Are you using the poker to slice the grates as well as shaking them? Try a really extended job with the poker to make sure they are clear. Some coal can be harder than others. I am burning Blaschak coal this year and have found I have to be more aggresive in clearing the grates than with coal I have used in years past.

It is not necessary to change the thermostat setting as it will already be open as the stove lost heat. That's one of the nice things about having a thermostat to control the air. Opening the ash pan door can't improve no draft.

I would suspect that the grates became ash bound and the stove lost enough heat until the stack temp. went low enough for the chimney draft to fail. What is your chimney? Perhaps its draft can be improved. When you first lit the stove with wood did it draw well or did you get smoke in the room? At least when it occurs with a dead fire you can't get very much CO.

When opening the door, crack it open and pause for a few seconds to allow room air to be drawn into the fire to keep the sulfer smell in the stove. Try to pin down just when the smell occurs. You should not smell it if the stove has not been opened.

Richard
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Visit Hitzer Stoves