Bit or Anthracite...

Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: Stanb999 On: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:40 pm

I live in NEPA, Before you say it... I know. The issue is I'm more than 35 miles from any dealers/ They all mandate that I purchase 6 ton (a full load), and add a delivery fee. So the final cost to the door is $235+ . So the average delivery will be in excess of 1200 bucks. I can also get a delivery from Penncoal. The 22-25 ton deal. Last summer I was quoted 155 to the door for nut anthracite. Total cost 3500 or so. I can also get Pittsburgh bit from penncoal delivered for about 110 a ton. It's still the 22-25 ton deal but that makes the total around 2500.

What say you all? Is it worth the savings to have the smoke?

I have a Harmon Mark 2 and live in the woods on a mountain top. So smoke doesn't really mean anything to me and I don't have neighbors. :lol:
Stanb999
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harmon
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark II

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:51 pm

I'd say it's worth it, if you have a decent setup, short run between stove and chimney and at least 8" connector pipe (even if the stove has 6" collar use an adapter immediately for 8") and if you have something like an 8/8 masonry chimmney.

The only other issue i'd mention is that the pittsburgh coal they sell may be a higher cokebutton than you will want and that DOES have the possiblity to cause a headache. I would reccomend calling Mark at valier coalyard in western PA and asking for a price on his "lump" coal trucked to your location, it will likely be less $ and will probably be better bit coal then what penn keystone has for pittsburgh coal. http://www.valiercoalyard.com/
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: Stanb999 On: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:02 pm

I have a strait up 6" SS chimney. It has a single elbow at the bottom to go from the horizontal to vertical. So it's strait up.
It was suggested during one of the webcasts that I replace the elbow with a T and add a simple clean out. I figure this would be important for burning Bit. Do you believe this setup will do?

Thanks for the Link.
Stanb999
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harmon
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark II


Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:07 pm

Personally I'd take it further.. I'd buy a few hundred pounds of the Bit coal and try it first.. If you haven't burnt Bit coal before you should give it a try before you commit yourself to 22 tons..

Various different Bit coals burn differently.. some swell and bridge, then the fire goes out under the bridged coal. Some have so many volitiles that you almost can't load the stove with more than one shovelful of Bit without getting a facefull of smoke..

I'd definitely burn some of whatever you decide to buy if the quantity is 22 tons..

Best of luck..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: Stanb999 On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:25 am

LsFarm wrote:Personally I'd take it further.. I'd buy a few hundred pounds of the Bit coal and try it first.. If you haven't burnt Bit coal before you should give it a try before you commit yourself to 22 tons..

Various different Bit coals burn differently.. some swell and bridge, then the fire goes out under the bridged coal. Some have so many volitiles that you almost can't load the stove with more than one shovelful of Bit without getting a facefull of smoke..

I'd definitely burn some of whatever you decide to buy if the quantity is 22 tons..

Best of luck..

Greg L


That was my plan. I'll take a ride out and get a few 500 or so pounds and see how it is. If it's good than I'll go ahead and order a truck load.
Stanb999
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harmon
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark II

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: DOUG On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:48 am

From my experience with burning Pittsburgh bit, it is either a great batch or it sucks. What I mean is that the size of the coal and the amount of fines varies so much in the same truck batch, I do not believe that the savings is worth the aggravation of the extra clean up and inconsistency.

Go for the anthracite! It is definitely the way to go. Anthracite is so much cleaner, not as dirty and smelly when while in storage, and burns more consistent without the messing with it.

Unless you ave a stoker for it, I wouldn't buy anymore Pittsburgh bit. Anthracite is the best hands down.
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:19 am

I concur, buy the 22 tons of anthracite and two folding chairs. Instead of wasting money on TV/entertainment , take the chairs and go gaze at the diamond-like pile of beauty. Think of the BTUs, think of the future increases in delivery/mining prices due to $100 oil, think of the extra Americans you kept busy.

I should warm you my views are thought a tad extreme.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: dave brode On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:23 pm

[quote="Stanb999"]

What say you all? Is it worth the savings to have the smoke?

quote]

Appliance in the house, anthracite is worth every penny, no question imo. Appliance in a garage, outbuilding etc, maybe arguable

Edit: previous sentence possibly not well worded. If one is a messy type, my argument is, anth would be a better option, and if bit is used, I'd not want it in the house.

I burned local bit for many years, 20 years in our "built new" home. I had $400 in the 40s era boiler when I installed it, and later added a $450 iron fireman. It served me well, and I would do it again, as money was tight then. However, as far as dirt, fumes etc, burning anth is so very nice in comparison. I don't care if the anth costs me $500 more a year. It's worth every penny.

I don't know about your local bit, but ours can vary widely in btu, ash etc. It seems that anth varies much less, at least from what I've read here.

Dave
Last edited by dave brode on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: dave brode On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:27 pm

$2500 vs $3500 for the big load.

Assuming that would be a 5 year supply, that's $200 per year difference. Even if you burned it in 3 years, it's only $333 per year. Still well worth it in my mind.

Dave
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: europachris On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:32 pm

dave brode wrote:Appliance in the house, anthracite is worth every penny, no question imo. Appliance in a garage, outbuilding etc, maybe arguable.
However, as far as dirt, fumes etc, burning anth is so very nice in comparison. I don't care if the anth costs me $500 more a year. It's worth every penny.
Dave


I'll argue your arguments, Dave! :P I've had my Keystoker stove running for 4 years now burning bagged Blaschak in a finished, carpeted basement "media room". Most of the time I have to cut a corner of each bag of coal and drop it over a 5 gal. bucket to drain for a day before carrying it through the laundry room, kitchen, down the carpeted stairs and across the room to the stove, trying not to make a mess on me or the floors. I only had to do that every other day since I was really only keeping the basement warm. Cleaning the glass and taking out the ash bucket both created a bit of dust, but nothing serious. Soot - none, smell - slight only when opening door to clean glass.

In the few days I've had my bituminous stoker running I've found it easier to feed with 5 gal buckets of coal stored under a tarp around back of the garage, and it creates essentially no smoke, although the "aroma" is a bit more pungent. Only cleaning the fire is a bit more time consuming and messy but the draft sucks most of the ash dust in thru the open cleanout door as it floats up from the ash bucket.

Now, if I had a KAA-2 in my house basement and a bulk bin supplied from an outside coal chute (or better yet - an A-A 130 or EFM with an auger feed) my viewpoint would be different. It really all depends on the specific setup. I'd love to try out a rotating ring Prill-style stoker as that would make it as easy as anthracite. But even with my current setup, $80/ton for Iliinois coal vs. $375/ton for Blaschak = no brainer for me.

Regardless of what type or how you burn it, burning coal keeps Americans employed and your family warm and secure. It is our job to burn it in the most responsible (and safe) manner.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: Berlin On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:35 pm

You may want to talk to dungeon master about his recent experience in a similar stove burning valier coal. I burned valier coal in my house with no more dirt or mess than any anthracite for years in a hand-fired stove with the only difference being a (obviously) cleaner burn and a little more ash, and i've done many test burns on various anthracites available locally. As far as the mess in the house - there was NO difference. Because of the differences in bit coal, unlike anthracite, you have to look at the properties of the coal - you can't just buy any old bit coal and expect it to work well, but if the properties are known, most importantly the coke button, then you can make the determination of whether or not it's worth it to buy. A good properly sized bit coal is no more "dirt or mess" in the home compared to anthracite; soot and smoke outside yes, in a hand-fired stove you'll have it, but if that's not the concern, and the coal is "good" bit, then there is little if any more effort in fueling the stove. A test burn is the best way to see if it is something that will suit him.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Bit or Anthracite...

PostBy: dave brode On: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:48 pm

Gents,

I edited my argument above.

"Knowing the coal" is a valid point. I'm not saying all coal sellers around here would lie, but I've found it pretty much a waste to ask small operators for numbers on the coal, and bigger operations don't mess with house coal - it all goes to power plants.

It could be that the bituminous coal we are being sold here is less than ideal. Even at the small operations, the good stuff probably all goes to the power plants, or is mixed with junk and then goes. What we normally get is very high in in volitiles, and I would no way want to burn it in a stove located in a living area. With my iron fireman, once in a while, I'd get a load that was ideal, and it was nice, but usually there was some fighting of some sort with it. If a person has a supply of the just right bit coal for your setup, consider yourself lucky. Even our good big vein that is usually ideal for hand firing old units is pretty high in volitiles.

Fwiw, I started my new Kaa-2 on rice anth mid October with a cold flue in 50s outside temps, without a door on my boiler room [to basement]. No fumes, no smoke etc. No way I would do that with our bit in my old setup.

If I had to pay $375 for anth vs $80 for bit, I'd probably still be on bit. Here, it's $200 ish for anth and $85-$115 for "pea" stoker and larger lump bit coal. Again, even at $500 more per year for anth, it's well worth it to me.

Dave

p.s. - I can climb up on top of the anth rice in my bin, move it around [over auger], bump my shoes against the wall, hop down out, and not even get much of anything on the floor. Not so with bit. No way, no how.
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite


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