It's Alive!

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:18 am

My main question is what works best for insulating the boiler under the jacket?


New EFM's use fiberglass insulation.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:34 am

fiberglass board insulation or would rolled insulation be best? R 13 is 3.5inches thick just thought that might be a little to thick for under the jacket.

If board insulation what type of board is best? 3/4 inch 1inch????
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:57 am

CoalBurner5 wrote:R 13 is 3.5inches thick just thought that might be a little to thick for under the jacket.


You can peel the fiberglass insulation off in layers, just peel off enough to fill the void between the boiler and the jacket.

As for your back-draft issue, I still think it is due to a lack of chimney height and the stovepipe configuration. If you wish to discuss that further, please bring up your "No Draft" thread again.

-Rob
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:20 pm

I redirected my stove pipe and now have it as a straight shot out the house with barometric damper in the middle of that straight shot.

I extended the height of my chimney 4 feet and i plan on extending 2 more once the weather breaks. I'm just a little unhappy with the output of heat to my heat exchanger and think i'm going to bump my high low limits to 170-190 with the pex tubing.

I was reading that some of the earlier efm's had a smaller gear drive that only had 8 teeth. I'm going to go examine mine closer i'm curious if mine only has 8 teeth on it instead of the newer ones with 10. Anyone know what the max output of the smaller gear is?
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: stoker-man On: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:48 am

The only thing that determines output is how far does the worm turn each stroke of the stoker. The S-20 can move 10-11 teeth each stroke.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:55 am

stokerscot wrote:
CoalBurner5 wrote:I've found that i will get a back draft through the air intake of the oil gun when i push the air up to high. I am planning on extending the chimney another 2 ft come spring, but till then it's a no go.

Right, i'm hoping to adjust the hi low tomorrow sometime.

I'm going to insulate the boiler in the upcoming week or so, any suggestions of what to use for insulation?



Do you have the cap on the oil gun. It's supposed to be there when not using the oil gun to protect the oil gun and to stop the,,,,,,,,, backdrafts. :)

The DF model has a slide plate on the end of barrel that the oil gun sits in when you slide the handel with the mercury switch on the outside it closes the plate over the end of oil gun aswell as shutting off the oil gun
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:29 am

stoker-man wrote:The only thing that determines output is how far does the worm turn each stroke of the stoker. The S-20 can move 10-11 teeth each stroke.

Wrong the original AP-520 with the large gerabox with the S-20 had a feed rate of 20lbs max which is 8 teeth max
each tooth is 2.5 lbs per hr of coal with Rice size coal It is 2lbs per hr per tooth 16lbs 8 teeth max on the older S-20
with Buckwheat size coal On the newer S-20 Small gear box is 10 teeth 20lbs per hr max
The S-15 stoker with the smaller pot had a max feed rate of 15lbs per hr 6 teeth max.
it was not until the DF model with the smaller gear box that you had a max feed rate of 25lbs per hr 10teeth
now with a simple modifaction you can get them to run 14 to 15 teeth out of them 35lbs per hr to 37.5 lbs per hr .
I have the EFM Spec.sheets that show these stats Showing the feed rate of the original AP-520 S-20 AP-350 S-15 & with the S-20 AP-700 AP-900 AP-1300.
As well as actually Running and having hands on these units testing them at the shop.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:45 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:
My main question is what works best for insulating the boiler under the jacket?


New EFM's use fiberglass insulation.

The first efm's used a foil back insulation that was glued onto the back of the Jackets
later Newer ones use a 2" Non foil wrap insulation around boiler top with steel bands
You can buy small rolls of it at H.D. store I have three here at my house .
CertainTeed Handi - Fill Multi - Purpose Fiber Glass Roll 1- Roll R-6.7* 2" Thick X 16" Wide X 48" Long
Product Code 900352 5.3Sq. Ft. You can use steel straps to wrap around boiler top .
Or use spray Addhesive contact Glue on the inside of Jackets and press the insulation on the jackets Then screw Jackets
on the Boiler & base .
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:55 am

stoker-man wrote:Shear pins are designed to break at 25 foot pounds of torque.

Take a torque wrench put it on the end of shaft were the hand wrench would go then have someone hold the auger keeping it from moving you will be surpised at what they break at do it a few times to get a average.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: CoalBurner5 On: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:32 am

Can anyone give me information on my specific boiler. Any help is appreciated.

i'm just a little curious about some facts on my specific boiler. If you could tell me where to find the serial number and/or model number i would look that up for you. The specifics that i have right now are only on the tag itself on the blower. It states S-20 91081


The motor on the blower is the original motor winsmith wingear
serial A013311-63A
Model 133WI

As far as the boiler itself the only tag i saw was on the front and it reads
GEN MACH CORP
EMMAUS PA
PA STD
Max Steam 15LB
WP Water 30LB
MIN SURC 230 LBS HR
H.S. 28 SQ FT
1980 14345

I'm curious if this stoker is the 8teeth or the 10teeth model. And any information about the boiler is appreciated also.
CoalBurner5
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520 Dual Fuel

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:50 pm

coal berner wrote:
stoker-man wrote:The only thing that determines output is how far does the worm turn each stroke of the stoker. The S-20 can move 10-11 teeth each stroke.

Wrong the original AP-520 with the large gerabox with the S-20 had a feed rate of 20lbs max which is 8 teeth max
each tooth is 2.5 lbs per hr of coal with Rice size coal It is 2lbs per hr per tooth 16lbs 8 teeth max on the older S-20
with Buckwheat size coal On the newer S-20 Small gear box is 10 teeth 20lbs per hr max
The S-15 stoker with the smaller pot had a max feed rate of 15lbs per hr 6 teeth max.
it was not until the DF model with the smaller gear box that you had a max feed rate of 25lbs per hr 10teeth
now with a simple modifaction you can get them to run 14 to 15 teeth out of them 35lbs per hr to 37.5 lbs per hr .
I have the EFM Spec.sheets that show these stats Showing the feed rate of the original AP-520 S-20 AP-350 S-15 & with the S-20 AP-700 AP-900 AP-1300.
As well as actually Running and having hands on these units testing them at the shop.


Could you please reconcile these S-20 numbers with the information you presented in another thread (EFM, Keystoker, or AHS, 6/14/2008), where you said that on a Highboy, "the feed rate went from 1 to 10 teeth 2.5 lbs a hr. to 25lbs a hr stoker was a S-20...The standard 520 ...also use the S-20 stoker...". That post didn't say anything about 16 lb/hr.

Perhaps mistakenly, I thought (from EFM literature) that the EFM stokers originally were "named" according to their max throughput of buckwheat. With the S-20 some users had problems with buck (stress with long augers, fumes with short augers) so EFM began to recommend using rice instead of buck in the S-20. They found that the same auger moves more rice than buck (2.5 vs. 2.0 lb/tooth/hr), so the throughput of the stoker depends on rice vs. buck. If there really was an S-20 that burned 16 lb/hr of buck, I'd like to see the literature on it. I would also be curious as to whether anyone has achieved a satisfactory burn in an S-20 modified to 35+ lb/hr as you describe.

Thanks.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:57 pm

Couldn't you just put a different motor on it. One that runs twice as fast. More air more coal. Twice as much. :) Supercharge that badboy. I gotta try that and see how it burns at a higher rate . See if it would work. Betcha it pumps some kind of gas out the pipe ;) You could put a longer piece on the gearbox to get more coal out.
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 350, 700. Van Wert 400 x 2, 800, 1200.
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:12 pm

More combustion seems like it would call for a bigger flue pipe. It would also seem to raise efficiency questions, since nothing has changed in the heat exchange area of the boiler. If you want to burn 35 lb/hr, buy a 900 (and use buck). I might even have one to sell you if whoever buys my old house doesn't want mine. :D

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: stoker-man On: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:22 am

coal berner wrote:
stoker-man wrote:The only thing that determines output is how far does the worm turn each stroke of the stoker. The S-20 can move 10-11 teeth each stroke.

Wrong the original AP-520 with the large gerabox with the S-20 had a feed rate of 20lbs max which is 8 teeth max


Markviii stated that he had a 1981 DF520 and I was referring to his S-20 when I said he could move 10-11 teeth in one stroke. I wasn't clear enough about that.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: It's Alive!

PostBy: coal berner On: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:59 pm

Pacowy wrote:
coal berner wrote:
stoker-man wrote:The only thing that determines output is how far does the worm turn each stroke of the stoker. The S-20 can move 10-11 teeth each stroke.

Wrong the original AP-520 with the large gearbox with the S-20 had a feed rate of 20lbs max which is 8 teeth max
each tooth is 2.5 lbs per hr of coal with Rice size coal It is 2lbs per hr per tooth 16lbs 8 teeth max on the older S-20
with Buckwheat size coal On the newer S-20 Small gear box is 10 teeth 20lbs per hr max
The S-15 stoker with the smaller pot had a max feed rate of 15lbs per hr 6 teeth max.
it was not until the DF model with the smaller gear box that you had a max feed rate of 25lbs per hr 10teeth
now with a simple modification you can get them to run 14 to 15 teeth out of them 35lbs per hr to 37.5 lbs per hr .
I have the EFM Spec.sheets that show these stats Showing the feed rate of the original AP-520 S-20 AP-350 S-15 & with the S-20 AP-700 AP-900 AP-1300.
As well as actually Running and having hands on these units testing them at the shop.


Could you please reconcile these S-20 numbers with the information you presented in another thread (EFM, Keystoker, or AHS, 6/14/2008), where you said that on a Highboy, "the feed rate went from 1 to 10 teeth 2.5 lbs a hr. to 25lbs a hr stoker was a S-20...The standard 520 ...also use the S-20 stoker...". That post didn't say anything about 16 lb/hr.

Perhaps mistakenly, I thought (from EFM literature) that the EFM stokers originally were "named" according to their max throughput of buckwheat. With the S-20 some users had problems with buck (stress with long augers, fumes with short augers) so EFM began to recommend using rice instead of buck in the S-20. They found that the same auger moves more rice than buck (2.5 vs. 2.0 lb/tooth/hr), so the throughput of the stoker depends on rice vs. buck. If there really was an S-20 that burned 16 lb/hr of buck, I'd like to see the literature on it. I would also be curious as to whether anyone has achieved a satisfactory burn in an S-20 modified to 35+ lb/hr as you describe.

Thanks.

Mike

All the Highboys made from 1948 to 1954 used a slip joint on the gearbox were the gear arm mounts onto making the feed rate 1 to 8 teeth that is how you had to adjust the feed rate at the bottom not the top were the drum gear is with the plate cover & thump screw like on the later ones and newer ones are . With rice coal every tooth is 2.5 lbs feed rate 1 to 8 teeth 2.5 lbs per hr to 20lbs per hr max it was not until the late 50's early 60's when they switch to the top feed plate on the drum gear they also made the gear arm longer to get the feed rate up to 10 teeth making it 25lbs per hr max .like all the new 520 are .

There use to be two I.D. plates on the blower housing one was EFM spec. the other was The Anthracite institute
showing the reed rate with Rice and Buckwheat size Anthracite Max feed rate for Rice 20 lb per hr Buckwheat size was
16 lbs per hr 2 lbs per per tooth .There are many blower housing at scrapper shop with these tags still on them .
If I can or could get a clear pitcher of them they would be on here showing you and everyone else that never seen them
and that would go for stokerman as well .

I suspect when efm started to recycle the blower housing that the tags where never used or put back on
they were metal tags rived on not stickers

The first S-15 stoker had a feed rate from 2.5 lbs per hr to 15lbs per hr 1-to 6 teeth the ash ring and pot was smaller
then the S-20 Scrapper also has a few of them at the shop if you look under efm section you will see that chris /stokerman has pics of one which is one of scrapper that he set to them because non of them at efm every saw one Just like the efm 350 Sq top or round top boiler Also the highboys themselves.

By the way My first experience with any EFM goes back to 1972 when My dad ran a 1961 350 with the S-15 stoker in the first house we lived in as well as my Grandmothers 1955 520 and not to mention my aunts 1958 520 what is funny is that
scrapper use to service it for her way before I knew meant him small world .

You can make any S-20 feed rate increase to 14 or 15 teeth if you know the simply mod.

The first standard AP-1 520 came out in late 1950 early 1951
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520