Wasted Match

My buddy with the AHS130 phoned this morning. His fired died! Monday he went to empty the ashes. He noticed it was about to ash, so he turned off his asher before he took the pan out to empty. When he put the pan back in he forgot to turn the asher back on.... so .....self inflicted constipation caused the fire to snuf itself out. He woke up this morning to a cold house and the cold realization that he is no longer a member of the one match club.

14 below this morning. 72 in the living room. Ahhhhhhhh, nice!

I used to shut off power when I'd take out the ash if it were running, I have a night light on the power side to remind me if power is off. NOW the night light is dead and I don't stop power to take out the tub, there is more than 1 tub and I'll can get the job done fast We can learn from our mistakes, and after all, matches are cheaper than frozen pipes

Freddy wrote:My buddy with the AHS130 phoned this morning. His fired died! Monday he went to empty the ashes. He noticed it was about to ash, so he turned off his asher before he took the pan out to empty. When he put the pan back in he forgot to turn the asher back on.... so .....self inflicted constipation caused the fire to snuf itself out. He woke up this morning to a cold house and the cold realization that he is no longer a member of the one match club.

14 below this morning. 72 in the living room. Ahhhhhhhh, nice!

Oh the shame he must feel. If it is his first offense, we should let him off with a stern warning. If not, then I'm afraid the punishment will be more severe.

Freddy wrote:My buddy with the AHS130 phoned this morning. His fired died! Monday he went to empty the ashes. He noticed it was about to ash, so he turned off his asher before he took the pan out to empty. When he put the pan back in he forgot to turn the asher back on.... so .....self inflicted constipation caused the fire to snuf itself out. He woke up this morning to a cold house and the cold realization that he is no longer a member of the one match club.

14 below this morning. 72 in the living room. Ahhhhhhhh, nice!

I would be interested in how long the power was off. I have had blackouts that have lasted well over 24 hours. While the temps were in the 60's on the ash monitor, and the coals seemed dead as a doornail, I have never had a problem turning on the AHS 130 and within a few hours it blooms back into a raging mass of hot coals. The coals may seem dead but they can smolder for a very very long time in an AHS.

I did have one problem during a blackout last year. Perhaps someone can cue me up as to what may have happened... as I am still a quasi-neophyte on coal. During one of the balckouts the temperature in the boiler rose way beyond the upper limits and rose into, if I recall correctly, the high 300's and the pressure was very high on the PG, perhaps 70 PSI or more, and kept climbing. Now, I would assume that the release valve should have disapated the pressure at a much lower pressure but it did not. I barely tapped the lever ever so lightly and SWOOSH, like a volcano the steam just blew out of the valve like a pressure washer for perhaps a minute or two and filled 3 car garage with an inpenetrable steam cloud. To me, a scarry moment. Fortunately, I was not standing in front of the release valve at the time of geyser like release. That would have been a disaster.

Stephen

In my opinion he would be better off to turn off the boiler completely than to just disable the ashing function. A lack of ashing can lead to a hopper fire.

-Rob

Freddy wrote:My buddy with the AHS130 phoned this morning. His fired died! Monday he went to empty the ashes. He noticed it was about to ash, so he turned off his asher before he took the pan out to empty. When he put the pan back in he forgot to turn the asher back on.... so .....self inflicted constipation caused the fire to snuf itself out. He woke up this morning to a cold house and the cold realization that he is no longer a member of the one match club.

Did he call a Mulligan?

Ohhhh, the shame! It's his first time & he tried to call a mulligan, but I shamed him best I could.

Good point. He should have shut the main power off, not just the asher. He could have had the beginning of a hopper fire as the power was never off. The boiler was calling for heat, so the fan kept running. It burned all the coal it could. As the ash settled more coal came in from the hopper, but eventually, the fire crept up, up, up toward the hopper. Either A: it finally lost oxygen and went out, or B: The heat sensor safety switch in the hopper neck kicked in and saved the day....but...come to think of it, he said the fan was still running, so I'd say the safety switch never kicked in. That's good! That means by design the fire went out by itself. If it had not, the safety would have stopped the fan fairly soon. The heat got real close to the switch! At this point he's back up to temp & the house is warm. Of course the match box is a tad light.

Hmmmm...... does anyone know? If the hopper heat sensor shut off the fan, then cooled down, does it auto-reset & the fan come back on? That may have happened. All we know for sure is when he got to it the fan was running, the fire was out, and the lower neck of the hopper had gotten hot enough to blister paint.

Regarding the temperature climing,, this will happen if you have a fairly good draft. Storng enough to pull the inspection door shut. I'd be tempted to prop open the inspection port to make sure natural draft isn't pulling it shut and keeping the fire hotter than at an idle..

And, in regards to the pressure relief valve.. PLEASE plumb an elbow and pipe it down to the floor.. this could be a terrible disaster for someone.. burn your toes,, not the entire side of your face and body.. !!!

Greg L.

Gosh... I started typing my last post, got called away & never saw rangaller (Stephans) post. For sure, get the relief valved "plumbed down" so it's pointing toward the floor and stops six inches from the floor. That's the code around here. I'm glad no one was hurt.
As for the temps rising, Greg is correct, but I'm wondering why it never has done it before. Seems at some point you'd have over heated by now. Hmmm..... perhaps you have, but a circ pump always came on before it got TOO hot? You might give thought to a zero electricity dump zone if it's a regular problem. I can't remember the name, but wood boilers use them often.... a valve that opens upon overheat and/or loss of power.

LsFarm wrote:Regarding the temperature climing,, this will happen if you have a fairly good draft. Storng enough to pull the inspection door shut. I'd be tempted to prop open the inspection port to make sure natural draft isn't pulling it shut and keeping the fire hotter than at an idle..

And, in regards to the pressure relief valve.. PLEASE plumb an elbow and pipe it down to the floor.. this could be a terrible disaster for someone.. burn your toes,, not the entire side of your face and body.. !!!

Greg L.

Greg,
Thank you for your input here. No doubt there were decent draft conditions even with the blower off due to the power failure. I will keep that in mind in the future should the likely hood of another power failure occur and utilize modalities that demish ambient draft. AND.... as to the topic of the inspection door. Only last night I came across one of the threads that spoke of one forum member that purchased two of these systems, one for himself and son (?) and he was having a problem with the inspection door not closing on one of them. Same thing with me. It never closes even with a draft at .04. Which prompts me to add a little pressure to close the port continuously. I have never had puff backs in the two years that I have had the system and didn't know that the failure of the inspection door to shut close when the blower fan is engaged was a problem.

As to the pressure relief valve, (I will upgrade a photo to show how it was installed in case I don't know what a PRV is) I will take steps to remedy that situation by this weekend. Thank you for your suggestion. And yes, without any drama, if I was standing on the side of its venting my upper chest and face would have been ruinously scalded and burned. The sound of the release is terrifying enough and the force of steam that acompanies said sound is equally dramatic for someone not accustomed to such an event.

Again, thanks!

Stephen

Freddy wrote:Gosh... I started typing my last post, got called away & never saw rangaller (Stephans) post. For sure, get the relief valved "plumbed down" so it's pointing toward the floor and stops six inches from the floor. That's the code around here. I'm glad no one was hurt.
As for the temps rising, Greg is correct, but I'm wondering why it never has done it before. Seems at some point you'd have over heated by now. Hmmm..... perhaps you have, but a circ pump always came on before it got TOO hot? You might give thought to a zero electricity dump zone if it's a regular problem. I can't remember the name, but wood boilers use them often.... a valve that opens upon overheat and/or loss of power.

Freddy,

As per my post with Greg, I will cefrtainly modify the PRV by the weekend. Seems like an esay enough DIY project. Thank you for your input too. Much appreciated!

I have never had anything really ever exceed the 210F dump before. The electrical failure obviously did not allow the circulators to move the super heated hot water to the next stage (piped through DHW and oil boiler) and then out through the oils hydronic system. Since plumbing is certainly not my forte, how would I set up a zero electricity dump zone?

Thanks,

Stephen

rangaller wrote: I have never had anything really ever exceed the 210F dump before. The electrical failure obviously did not allow the circulators to move the super heated hot water to the next stage (piped through DHW and oil boiler) and then out through the oils hydronic system. Since plumbing is certainly not my forte, how would I set up a zero electricity dump zone?

Thanks,

Stephen

The no electric dump zone has been discussed here before. One idea was an automotive thermostat between 2 pump flange fittings, or you could use a zone valve that is normally open and supply 24v to it continuesly, when power stops, the valve will open. A modine heater(of coarse the fan would not be needed) would work depending on size, and you can't have any check/flo control valves on the loop, and the modine or some other form of radiator would need to be higher than the boiler.

Automag! That's the name I was having trouble remembering. It is a normally open zone valve. Electricity holds it closed, if the power fails, it opens. Here's a link to instructions: http://www.automagzonevalve.net/SOLID%20FUELED%20 ... 0VALVE.pdf

To have it work you need baseboard or radiator above the boiler.

After making some suggestions to member Isayre about expansion tanks and dump zones in another thread I now longer think a dump zone is necessary on a coal fired boiler. As long as it piped as a closed system, it will be possible to size an expansion tank large enough, so that when the boiler water expands the expansion tank absorbs it all. This will be true even for the worst cast power failed condition. The design equations in Siengethaler's book in the Expansion Tank Chapter will show you how to do it. His examples are for low temperature radiant heat, where much of the total water is not at boiler water temperature. He shows why using the traditional expansion tanks design rules results in oversizing the tank. Using the same equations you can size the expansion tank for the worst case condition of a very overheated boiler. The opposite of his examples, a portion of the total water volume that is much hotter rather than the radiant heat case where a portion of the water is lower temperature that the boiler.

When I get some time I'll post an example. Still thinking how to best give a good example.