GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: tom69z On: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:09 am

the total estimate was $13440, 4 wells about 225ft deep each to complete a 3ton loop. (i dont know the well diameter), but I was assured there will be no freezing of the wells, we have a 36" frost line here where i'm located. I'll check back with the one customer and see if they can come up with a detailed summary of savings, but I know in the summer they were spending $250/month for AC, and last summer it was only $55/month, The heating aspect of the story is a little different, I believe they stated monthly electric @ $270/month Dec-Feb (270x3=$710). The remaining months they averaged $120/month electric. I'll re-confirm this with them, hopefully they wont mind me calling and asking more questions. They were burning heating oil (like me), and were useing 1300 gallons per yr @ $3/gal average = $3900/yr.

Again, I'll have to re-confirm these numbers but - $220(summer 4 months) + $710 (winter 3 months) + $600 (remainder of the year) = $1530/yr total

$3900- $1530 = $2430 savings , so it was figured in 4yrs they would return the investment (after the 30% govt rebate)

I know one thing, in the summer my electric bills are like $270/month for the central AC. That sucks.

I'm really on the fence (still),
do I invest $6000 into a coal system by the time its installed, or what? :?





titleist1 wrote:Tom,
I am really interested to see what the electric bills are for the existing customer references you received. Getting the exact system they have installed for $9400 and if monthly electric is the same as estimated cost of winter coal usage and summer AC usage, I'd say you have a viable solution.

Maybe I missed it, how many wells did they say you would need for your system?
tom69z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Thermo-Dynamics HT Oil Boiler
Stove/Furnace Model: none currently

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:15 am

tom69z wrote:I'm really on the fence (still),
do I invest $6000 into a coal system by the time its installed, or what? :?

Depending on your life style and how you use your home, the mini-split A/C inverter systems can save you significant dollars. Works by minimizing the rooms or areas of your house you actually cool. Most use R410A refrigerant with flare style connections and come pre-charged. Installation is possible by a diligent homeowner with good construction skills. A HVAC tech will be needed to vacuum the lines.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:40 pm

4 wells....they must be a different kind of well than I was picturing. I was thinking along the lines of a water supply well. Around here 4 225' water wells would run around $4k each getting way above the $13k number you have quoted (then there would be the equip & inst cost on top of that). Maybe there would be a discount if all 4 are on the same property.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite


Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:45 pm

When you talk to the companies and installers make sure you tell them you want the emergency/backup heat and the DHW to be Natural Gas. Only a few Geo units come with Gas but with electric sky rocketing with no end in site and Natural Gas being found every day you will reap the rewards very quickly.
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:11 pm

So they were burning 1300 Gals of HO at what about 130,000 BTU per gal so let's guess an 80,000BTU furnace and that output is being replaced by a 3 ton (36000 BTU) furnace for over $20,000 (you wait). Something smells bad to me. Does anybody know a coal stove that is small enough to put out only 36,000BTU? If so I suspect about 4-5tons would see them through just fine along with free DHW. Seeing where interest rates must go this year the imputed cost of $20,000 will be way over $1000 (anybody want to bet). So if you used coal it would be totally for free. Great timing to get into debt or use precious cash for such a frivolous project.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: tom69z On: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:32 am

dont castrate me just yet, I havent decided to go with GEO THERMAL as a final decision. I just wanted some input from the forum. I think in the end, i'll end up with an EFM 350 or 520. And another thing, cash is not precious, because it is not real money, its just evidence of debt create and printed out of thin air by the un-constitutional FED. Ben Bernake should change his name to Joke Bernake, because he is a F***ing joke. :eek2:


coalnewbie wrote:So they were burning 1300 Gals of HO at what about 130,000 BTU per gal so let's guess an 80,000BTU furnace and that output is being replaced by a 3 ton (36000 BTU) furnace for over $20,000 (you wait). Something smells bad to me. Does anybody know a coal stove that is small enough to put out only 36,000BTU? If so I suspect about 4-5tons would see them through just fine along with free DHW. Seeing where interest rates must go this year the imputed cost of $20,000 will be way over $1000 (anybody want to bet). So if you used coal it would be totally for free. Great timing to get into debt or use precious cash for such a frivolous project.
tom69z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Thermo-Dynamics HT Oil Boiler
Stove/Furnace Model: none currently

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: Coalfire On: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 am

tom69z wrote:dont castrate me just yet, I havent decided to go with GEO THERMAL as a final decision. I just wanted some input from the forum. I think in the end, i'll end up with an EFM 350 or 520. And another thing, cash is not precious, because it is not real money, its just evidence of debt create and printed out of thin air by the un-constitutional FED. Ben Bernake should change his name to Joke Bernake, because he is a F***ing joke. :eek2:


coalnewbie wrote:So they were burning 1300 Gals of HO at what about 130,000 BTU per gal so let's guess an 80,000BTU furnace and that output is being replaced by a 3 ton (36000 BTU) furnace for over $20,000 (you wait). Something smells bad to me. Does anybody know a coal stove that is small enough to put out only 36,000BTU? If so I suspect about 4-5tons would see them through just fine along with free DHW. Seeing where interest rates must go this year the imputed cost of $20,000 will be way over $1000 (anybody want to bet). So if you used coal it would be totally for free. Great timing to get into debt or use precious cash for such a frivolous project.



If cash is not precious I would be willing to take what you have, I will even haul it away for free no charge to you. Let me know when I can pick it up :D


Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: tom69z On: Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:40 am

there are alot of things in life more precious than cash.
tom69z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Thermo-Dynamics HT Oil Boiler
Stove/Furnace Model: none currently

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: Brian On: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:39 pm

Tom

If I could turn back the clock I would install EFM 520 with cast iron baseboard. Lived in CC all my life and know the weather swings. This system a little bit pricy but will last a life-time. And save you thousands of dollars compared to oil or electric. :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:
Brian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Kodiac

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: cabinover On: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:11 pm

tom69z wrote:maybe i should not of posted this topic, i seem to have opened an unwelcome worm-can here on a coal burning forum.
lesson learned, points taken, thanks for the remarks and commentary. the Admin can lock this post anytime they want.
:surrender:


Even if it's viewed by some as an unwelcome topic, I find it interesting just the same. While I don't harbor any fantasies that it would work at my house for heat I can see where the A/C side is feasible. At my house we have two seasons, heat and A/C. In between you may get two or three days where just opening the windows will do the trick but not many more.

Also, we're sitting here at $.14/Kwh so I really don't need any further electric expenses. I keep trying to get them lower but they keep sending me $180.00 bills anyway after they get a COLA raise or some other dumb $hit.

I'd like to get some of Ohio's 6.6c power thrown this way!
cabinover
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid Axeman Anderson 130
Baseburners & Antiques: Sparkle #12
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Buckwheat, Nut
Other Heating: LP Hot air. WA TX for coal use.

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: tom69z On: Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:58 pm

thanks Brian,
thought about solid cast iron baseboards when the house was built in 2004, the look just like slant-fin units even... but vs slant-fin they were alot more money. but when they heat up they stay warm a long time. It looks like I may go with a 520, but instead of putting it inside the garage, I may be able to make a small room for it added onto the house next to my existing double flue chimney, its another option that just came to me....

tom.


Brian wrote:Tom

If I could turn back the clock I would install EFM 520 with cast iron baseboard. Lived in CC all my life and know the weather swings. This system a little bit pricy but will last a life-time. And save you thousands of dollars compared to oil or electric. :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea:
tom69z
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Thermo-Dynamics HT Oil Boiler
Stove/Furnace Model: none currently

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:21 pm

cabinover wrote:
tom69z wrote:maybe i should not of posted this topic, i seem to have opened an unwelcome worm-can here on a coal burning forum.
lesson learned, points taken, thanks for the remarks and commentary. the Admin can lock this post anytime they want.
:surrender:


Even if it's viewed by some as an unwelcome topic, I find it interesting just the same. !


Agreed.

I wouldn't worry too much about some of the negativity. I found this discussion very informative.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:27 pm

"there are a lot of things in life more precious than cash."

Money can't buy you love but it will buy you something so close it's really hard to tell the difference. :D
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:18 pm

dont castrate me just yet, I havent decided to go with GEO THERMAL as a final decision. I just wanted some input from the forum. I think in the end, i'll end up with an EFM 350 or 520. And another thing, cash is not precious, because it is not real money, its just evidence of debt create and printed out of thin air by the un-constitutional FED. Ben Bernake should change his name to Joke Bernake, because he is a F***ing joke.


Don't mix topics it's too confusing for my simple brain. I have given my opinion on geothermal. If you think the dollar will crash then that is a different topic about fiat currencies. Definitely a separate thread, however, you need to buy gold, silver, food, guns, Swiss Francs, Aussie dollars.Then hide out in Freetown, NY until the revolution is over. You will be safe up there, no one will ever find you.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: GEO-THERMAL HEATING / COOLING SYSTEMS

PostBy: nortcan On: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:10 pm

Hi. At a not so far time I really was supposed to go for slinky loops Geo. I know a few guys around here, in Qc having Geo. syst. not slinky but in staight line, at about 5/6 Ft deep. They are very satisfied with their's horizontal syst. At that depth, the soil Temp. is about 5*C or 42* F. all year round. What I was supposed to do was to buy a DIY kit. these DIY kit are sold at a very attractive price. The only thing I would have to do was the digging and connect the pipes... air handler.

2 things stopped me: first my back yard is just correct for the trenches but a little bit too thight for the digging and would be a mess all arond including my wife's garden.
Second one, although a DIY kit cost less,less, than others systems, it would have needed a very long time to recover my initial cost. With anthracite, I get a super nice heating way to heat the house at a good price. If I was in USA, the price would be even better but heating with anthracite cost me less than wood if I compare a 24/24 Hrs steady heating. Often peoples ask me if it is cheaper to heat with anthracite than wood. I answer: how and what do you want to compare. It's impossible to have a 24/24 Hrs steady wood burning heat if you don't stay beside the wood stove all night long. Plus, wood burning needs so much more work compare to anthracite... I must stop here cause it could never ends. Money is important and MUST be considered when comparing different heating systm.
ANTHRACITE is the way to go
nortcan
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride