Leaking boiler--What are my options?

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:22 pm

Parts are available for the Riello F5, and they are also available as a complete unit. Any service tech. worth their salt should be able to fix the existing burner (it is probably something simple).

With that said, before you start throwing money at the old burner you should know that a brand new Riello F5 is $330 + tax/shipping online. Naturally you would have to find someone willing to install an internet sourced burner, or do it yourself and have the combustion checked afterwards.

Link:
http://www.simplyplumbing.com/rielloburners-r-40-f5.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


-Rob

P.S. I bought my Riello burner from simplyplumbing in 2009 and was very pleased with the service.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: steamup On: Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:46 pm

Scottsman wrote:OK, so here are the pics. As I'm looking at this, there is nothing at all leaking from the boiler, all I see is a little puddle of oil underneath the burner. (The floor overall is still discolored from an oil leak I had last year). So, yeah--why was I even thinking of replacing this boiler?
Boiler leak 001.jpg


The best I can tell, it is leaking from somewhere onto this black part, then dripping onto the floor.
Boiler leak 008.jpg



Silly question, How fast is the leak/drip? Would a simple drip pan emptied when there was an little accumulation get you by for a little while?
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: Scottsman On: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:34 am

It's leaking about a tablespoon or two every hour. I cleaned up the floor some and put a pan under it. As I look closer, I can see it dripping off that thin little oil tube at the bottom of the burner. Maybe I just need to tighten the little nut that attaches that tube to the bottom. Or maybe it was overtightened and now can't be tightened. I could call the tech out, but then I'd be paying him $75 to fix a problem he may have created to begin with.
Scottsman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salvo Machinery/Citation C-80
Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler


Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: Scottsman On: Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:39 am

Whistlenut--
What kind of Scotch do you enjoy....if that is not too personal?


:lol: I actually don't drink. But I'm of Scotch descent and was am usually very frugal--that is, when I'm not getting ripped of because I'm out of my area of expertise. ;) This forum's been great. I leard a lot and have saved a ton of money by heating with coal and learning to do some things myself.
Scottsman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salvo Machinery/Citation C-80
Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: 009to090 On: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:39 am

Scottsman wrote: As I look closer, I can see it dripping off that thin little oil tube at the bottom of the burner. Maybe I just need to tighten the little nut that attaches that tube to the bottom. Or maybe it was overtightened and now can't be tightened.


I have had good luck with Oatey 31261 Great Blue Pipe Joint Compound on those pesky little fittings.

http://www.amazon.com/Oatey-31261-Great ... 978&sr=8-1
Most any harware store / plumbing supply sells it.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:54 am

My wife is Scottish, so I know about what frugality ....and sensible, mean. The question about what kind of adult beverage came up because I was watching the History Channel about prohibition and the fine Still Masters that had escaped Europe over liqueur taxes,,,only to come to the US and eventually get hammered....oops, heavily taxed here also...so they moved further into the back country of PA, Virginia, WV, Kentucky and Tennessee. Many of the 'master brewers' were Scottish, therefore the question. It is an interesting look back at where 'Moonshine' came from....and the money it earned.....and the millionaire's legacy that followed. Gangsters........... Even the name Kennedy was prominent as Smitty may know.....or have heard about. :eek2: ;)

The leaking boiler/burner issue has been resolved I'll bet. Or a solution is in the works.

The forum is here to exchange ideas, support coal usage and the folks that mine or dig it, share some history and to educate ourselves and others about a unique fuel that is much maligned by those who don't know the entire story. idea: 8-) ;) :!:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: Scottsman On: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 pm

Boy I wish my leak were resolved. Still leaking about a cup of oil a day. Fortunately I have a pan under it. I cleaned it up real good Saturday to figure out exactly where the leak was coming from, and have determined that it is that thin copper tube (think it is called a capillary tube) that connects to the pump. It is dripping right where it connects to the pump. I tried tightening the nut around it, but that doesn't help. It may be stripped. I also tried shutting the power and oil off and putting a bunch of Plumbers Goop around the fitting to seal it. That didn't work either. Probably wasn't dry enough to adhere right, but I didn't want bleed it and then risk messing it up when I tried to run it again. So I finally cried uncle and called a different boiler service place (the one who installed it over 10 years ago), and am waiting for them to come by in a couple of days to take a look. I figure it could either need a new capillary tube and nut or a new pump if the fitting is stripped, or both. Here's my hard to think through issues:

1. I can try to talk to my service and repair guy into just replacing the leaking parts. But the guy who serviced this was talking about replacing the whole burner "cause its old." $750 to fix a little oil leak seems like overkill to me. Can I talk him into just replacing the pump, which I know is only $70 at Simply Plumbing.com? What if he balks and says the part alone will cost him $150, plus labor? I don't mind a plumber charging reasonable markup, but honestly, it feels like a lot of these guys just go to the same supplier year after year instead of getting the same part from a cheaper supplier. I've often been charged double for the same exact part (brand and everything) that they have at the local hardware store).

2. I can replace the whole burner, but will I gain anything? I only burn about 500 gallons of fuel a year. Seems like I'd have to increase a lot in effeciency to justify the cost of replacing a burner that is still being made.

3. If I use the guys who originally installed this boiler-then I'm using the same company that delivers my oil. But I've heard that it's a bad idea to use your oil man to service your boiler, because they don't have any interest in it running efficiently. I know that sounds terrible, because probably 90% of these fuel service places are honest, but how's a guy to know who to trust? :?

My trouble is, I don't think like a HVAC pro. I don't know their perspective. All I know is I don't want to overspend on a little leak. But I don't want to tick them off unnecessarily either. Maybe I'm overthinking this. :?
Scottsman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salvo Machinery/Citation C-80
Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:51 pm

If you can get me a serial number, I'll get the parts list and an exploded view so you can track the problem from the schematic. Riello techs are very happy to help solve any issue, and will make recommendations.
I'm pretty sure you have the little hydraulic jack style air shutter. That being said, the fitting may only be part of the issue. It is dinky for sure and does not require 250 ft*lbs of torque, more like 1.5 lbs, but the seals in the 'jack' may be worn, and require replacement. I'll look over the service manual tonight.....
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: Scottsman On: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:00 pm

SN is 95438512100009091 Yes, it has the hydraulic jack (not the newer one). But after I cleaned everything up, there is no oil on the bydraulic jack or the little tube coming from it. As far as I can tell, it is all dripping from the left side from the top of this little tube on the right side where this black nut is.
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Last edited by Scottsman on Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scottsman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Salvo Machinery/Citation C-80
Other Heating: Weil McLain steam oil boiler

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:18 pm

All the old guys prefer the oil jack and not the electric one, but you are in the situation where you wished for the solenoid type too. Back at you in the AM.....
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:17 am

You've asked a couple of times if a newer burner, or a different one might be more efficient. No....those dang Riello's squeeze oil until it screams before they burn it. I honestly don't believe there is a more efficient burner made....unless a brand new Riello is tighter fisted than an older model. I'm not familiar with the new Riello's but back when yours was made they were more efficient than anything out there. Consequently, they do require a knowledgeable service tech for setting one up or adjusting after a cleaning. Average Joe boiler man may not know the tricks to get one set up properly. Whistlenut knows....he's above average!
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:04 am

I agree with Freddy, there is not a more efficient burner available. I set mine according to the settings recommended in the manual and it was DEAD ON during the combustion test, no tweaks required. 12% CO2, 0 smoke, and even after having 1500 gallons run through it, the boiler still looked squeaky clean inside.

The pressure gauges required to check/adjust the fuel pressure are not inexpensive, so if you are looking for a new service tech. make sure they have the right equipment. Anyone familiar with the Riello family of burners should be able to locate and install the parts you need. Most likely someone just overtightened that line and stripped the fitting.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: katman On: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:30 am

Another option yu might want to consider is talking to your oil supplier about covering it under a service contract. Sometimes they will write the contract even though they know there is a problem if the fix is minor. Sounds like you might need a new fuel line--mayber you have a flared connection that was overtightened. I'm usually not a big fan of service contracts but in my area the cost of one service call for a minor repair covers the service contract and I get an annual cleaning, nozzle & filter replacement out of it. The hook is I have to agree to buy my oil from the same company that has the servic e contract. For me, that's not a big issue. I've told them oil is my back up heat and we figured out my average annual consumption. If I need extra they have been competitive in the spot price. the other reason I use the service contract is that way I get someone who knows boilers to do the servicing. At least that is how it has worked out.
katman
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magnum
Other Heating: Harman PB 105 Pellet Boiler

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:33 am

We are not telling you to replace the whole boiler, but I chuckle when I mention frugal and the Scots', but the Scotch Marine Design Triple Pass Boilers are the only design to purchase IMO. The vertical pin boilers that are so plentiful get the single vertical pass and then out the chimney.....efficiency of the burner may be 85%, but the boiler package is probably about 58% at best. AFUE is the important thing....even in a coal appliance. We'll get you repaired and then talk about a coal boiler.... Axeman-Anderson makes a Top Tier 3 pass, as does EFM(&TD), New Yorker, Weil McLain and several others. Look over the flue path of a coal boiler or furnace and see the comparisons. Turbulators make a HUGE difference also. We don't hate Carlin or Becket, but they were very slow to copy Riello...like 40 years slow. :shock: :shock: :idea:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Leaking boiler--What are my options?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:47 am

If that were my burner, I'd just take the fitting out & load it up with Permatex Ultra Copper RTV sealer & call it a day. Seeing that I burn coal, & have spent a bunch of cash on coal & related accessories, I would be looking for the cheap way out .... but that's just me. :| ;)
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler