Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: Wardner On: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:26 am

KLook wrote:I would think the restricted space in a car would have prevented them from producing enough HP to even move.


If space and weight considerations are unfathomable to you, you may be surprised to learn that steam powered motorcycles have been built. Some of them are recent. I don't have a link but google is your friend.
Wardner
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: cokehead On: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:21 am

KLook wrote:Very interesting replies, educational. Might I ask how a Stanley Steamer worked? This sounds like something that has been discussed before.

Kevin


Stanley Steamer operated at 600 psi and burned kero as I remember. That is SERIOUS high pressure.
cokehead
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: samhill On: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:23 am

The boiler on the Stanleys are wrapped with piano wire for strength & to keep the weight down. I`ve been able to drive a few & I was very impressed, the brakes & steering were crap but the best of its time, speed & power was no issue at all.
samhill
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: CoalUserWannabe On: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:28 pm

The oil companies may even fund your project, they are aware as I am of the guaranteed results !

The efficiency of taking heat generated by the coal to give you steam, along with
The efficiency of having the steam spin turbines or powering reciprocating pistons in cylinders, along with
The efficiency of rotating the generator magnets to generate electricity,


Drops dramatically.

And don't forget the biggest factor of all, attempting to put AC power on the grid, isn't as easy as starting a car that has a dead battery by using jumper cables, the AC phase has to be in sync.

If we are still living in the 1930 early 1940s it would have been easier, after all power was still supplied to homes as 32 volts DC, Delco Remy was the battery company supplying battery banks so you can hook up to generators in case you lose power from the line.


To use steam driven power plants for local power, isn't a bad idea, as long as you are using that mechanical energy harnessed from the steam, ( making shingles, cutting wood, running water pumps, and all the stuff you see in county fair ) . But to even think of generating electricity from steam, no thanks, it's bad enough that most wind powered generators are nothing but scams.

T.Boune Pickens, already pulled the plug on his multi million dollars wind farm project. and if you and I have his money we can certainly burn ours.... Get a hint
CoalUserWannabe
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:56 pm

CoalUserWannabe wrote:............<snip> But to even think of generating electricity from steam, no thanks, it's bad enough that most wind powered generators are nothing but scams.

T.Boune Pickens, already pulled the plug on his multi million dollars wind farm project. and if you and I have his money we can certainly burn ours.... Get a hint



Wrongo there Johnnie. Some of the small household sized units do perform quite well. It's all about electric useage and location of the windmill.

My parents had 1 and it did supply quite a bit of their monthly utility bill, sometimes all of it.



Rick
Rick 386
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:12 pm

Pickens stopped plans for the Texas wind farms because the Gov. didn`t build the transmission lines for him, he still wants the ones in Canada & Minnesota. Another big factor is the drop in natural gas prices making it cheaper to use nat. gas. Plus lets face it location means everything with windmills & no matter where they are the wind sometimes quits blowing, can`t tie your output to only one source.
samhill
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: pret On: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:46 am

Yes... inefficiencies. I agree with everyone that it is not a good idea to use my coal boiler to make steam. I haven't given up on steam however, because it still may provide me the simplest mechanical method to accomplish what I'm dreaming up.

People often make discoveries by accident... I'm accident prone... this makes me more probable to discoveries! (Please chuckle and disregard the logic)

Some time ago I read extensively about wood gas and what some folks are doing with it... as Yanche said, this may provide a better fuel.

I was reading about one of the earlier internal combustion engine prototypes using black power and the problems encountered with it. With all these coal fines... :D
pret
 

Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: Cheetah On: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:14 am

Wardner wrote:
KLook wrote:I would think the restricted space in a car would have prevented them from producing enough HP to even move.


If space and weight considerations are unfathomable to you, you may be surprised to learn that steam powered motorcycles have been built. Some of them are recent. I don't have a link but google is your friend.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/garciavinc ... 331138529/

http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/black ... cycle.aspx

The Michaux-Perreaux steam velocipède shown below took a different approach.

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... ambike.htm

Where the Roper machine connects the pistons to cranks on the axle of the rear wheel, the Michaux-Perreaux uses a belt with a reduction ratio, so the engine spins much faster than the wheel. I once stumbled across a sound clip of this engine, or a reproduction of it, being run. Except for an occasional hiss it sounded very much like a small four stroke engine. I was similarly surprised when I rode up the cog railroad on Mt Washington. The steam engine did a good impersonation of a jack hammer. None of that lazy chuff chuff stuff.

Here is a really good clip on a steam powered car.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/192 ... ar/213453/

Bruce
Cheetah
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: pret On: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:24 pm

I watched Leno's video on his Doble... pretty cool. Seems like a lot of work!

Anybody ever use parabolic trays in industry?
pret
 

Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:31 am

CoalUserWannabe wrote: attempting to put AC power on the grid, isn't as easy as starting a car that has a dead battery by using jumper cables, the AC phase has to be in sync.


I have a windmill & had to sync it to the grid. It's actually pretty easy. Quite literally, you crank spin the generator as fast as you can by hand, then energize it for a couple of seconds. If it slows and stalls, ( or kicks a breaker) it is not in sync. Swap some wires & try again. If it tries to come up to speed, that is, increases in RPM's, then you are in sync and good to go. When the hydro comes to inspect it to allow you to come on line, you'd better be prepared to explain it, because most of them don't understand it! (and I don't understand it, I just followed directions and explained what I did).
That being said: Windmills, location location location.
Freddy
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: europachris On: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:51 am

Freddy wrote: I have a windmill & had to sync it to the grid. It's actually pretty easy. Quite literally, you crank spin the generator as fast as you can by hand, then energize it for a couple of seconds. If it slows and stalls, ( or kicks a breaker) it is not in sync. Swap some wires & try again. If it tries to come up to speed, that is, increases in RPM's, then you are in sync and good to go.


What sort of windmill do you have? Is it a direct grid tie? If so, it must have variable pitch on the blades, no? Otherwise at any wind speed below where it generates power it will turn in to a fan and USE power instead. At least variable pitch blades would milk the most out of the wind speed.

Most "home" systems are DC windmill generators and storage battery with inverter, and for grid-tie you use an inverter designed for that application and either keep the battery for backup or (if you trust your utility) dispense with the battery and use the grid for "storage".
europachris
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: BigBarney On: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:07 am

Here's a ASME report on a pair of 3500 HP @ 118 rpm steam engine built

by Skinner Engine Co in Erie PA, where I was born & lived, and remember

the west 12th street company well,on the SS Badger.

http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communiti ... s/5496.pdf

Here's a page with how the steam engine sounds and also her whistle.

There are many photos, even a Stanley Steamer being transported across

the Lake.


http://www.carferries.com/badger/
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.




BigBarney
BigBarney
 

Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: Sting On: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:26 am

Riding the badger isn't cheep or faster than braving the horde and driving around the bottom of the lake thru the abyss of Chicago.

but if you have time to waste - don't mind the load load times and wait - the usual poor cold lake conditions - and the abuse to your vehicle

its fun!
Sting
 
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Re: Steam Engines... and coal... TODAY - I predict...

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:22 pm

Here's a link to Jay Leno's various collection of steam cars.


http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/at-the-garage/steam-cars/
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


The 1907 White Steam Car was the White House's first "official" car!
EarthWindandFire
 
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