New Boiler Temps

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: lobsterman On: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:27 am

It seems nothing is wrong with your fire, it may be wasteful but you are consuming lots of coal. It appears the boiler cannot hold the heat, that and 80 gallons is an awful lot, I am estimating 50-60k BTU to get that up to temperature.
lobsterman
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Glenwood
Stove/Furnace Model: Base Heater No. 6

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:05 pm

One thing I learned early on here at this forum is that bit coal needs over the fire air controls, whereas anthracite needs under the fire air controls. Does the DSC#3 boiler have the required adjustable over the fire air supply control knobs? If not, then it wasn't designed for bituminous coal.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Sting On: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:26 pm

macdabs wrote:Sting,
The plumbing portion I had twice as much in material than the boiler itself. Could it be the boiler is just made to push a gravity system to get a 200 btu rating with some one tending to it all day? The instructions are a single sheet of paper showing the boiler inlet and outlet ports and domestic coil nothing on the settings for the samson control valve or the required chain length or setup . I have messed with it in small increments with not much change or luck. My flue pipe is double wall SS from the stove to the cap and I do live in a windy area so I installed the MPD tuesday . Should I keep the air vents cracked open on the door burning coal? I was told to keep them shut unless I was burning wood or just loading the stove .

mac


Sorry -- I know nothing about firing your boiler, but I am getting pretty good at skim coating drywall this weekend

- my suggestion is based on above ! If the load is disconnected - the boiler should easily fire up to limit

IT DON"T :cry: :?: :?:

Thats an issue to resolve first
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

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Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Just wondering if this situation has improved, or if there are any updates?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:23 pm

I'll venture a guess that the grates are clogged up with clinkers and ash from the initial trials with burning Bit coal.. Bit coal has a much lower AFT. That's Ash Fusion Temperature.. Most Bit coal has an AFT around 1700-1800*, Most Anthracite coal's AFT is around 2700*..
So I think it's possible that the Bit coal created some significant clinkers [fused ash] and these are blocking air flow to the current fire in the coal bed.

I'd start over, let the fire go out, clean out the firebox, look for clinkers or what might be restricting the air through the grates..

Then: install a barometric damper.. it really is needed to burn Anthracite coal properly.. An MPD will help with an older not-airtight stove/boiler, but your boiler is airtight.. so you can control the air through the burnchamber.. but you must control or limit the actuall draft.. an MPD does NOT control draft, only airflow velocity/volume.. Set the Baro for .06" or so.

Next start up your wood fire, go through the usual process to start a coal fire, but once the coal fire is established, fill the firebox up to a depth of at least 8" or more of coal..

Once the coal fire is established, close off all over the fire air.. make sure the loading door seal is good, and close off the loading door air vent.. Use only the ashpan airvent for Anthracite.

Once the water temperature is up to 160+ slowly open your supply valves and let the boiler start to feed the house/or slab heat.. but do it slowly.. try to manage the temperature in the boiler so it doesn't drop way down.. you may find you have to leave your supply valves only partially open, or it will cool down the boiler too much..

As for the boiler cooling off everytime you open the loading door,, I suspect you are cooling down your chimney.. I don't recall reading it,, how tall and what diameter is the chimney?? Even with opening the door and loading 80# of fresh coal, once the door is closed, the chimney should pull a decent draft and shortly after have the fresh coal up to temp and supplying heat.. If your chimney is too short, and gets cold from the fresh cool air coming through an open loading door, then you will take awhile to warm up the chimney, and get it drafting well enough to pull combustion air through the coal bed, greatly slowing down the recovery time.

Let us know what you have done/experienced lately..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:54 pm

Sorry for no update , everyone on this forum has been very informative and I appreciate the feedback .:D

The weather has been really warm so I figured it was a good time to let the fire go out after messing with the boiler all day Sunday and averaging temps of 120. I called Amos at the factory and explained the lack of heat or the fire ramping up even with the ash door open. This puzzled him and is recommending the dealer I purchased the boiler from to look it over. The boiler was shut down Monday and the building is still at 58 degrees with all the pumps running circulating the slab in the new shop and the two 1'' lines underground to my house. Unfortunatly I fired up my oil boiler to keep the house warm. I wish my home held the heat like my new shop.

I made contact with the dealer Monday afternoon and still waiting for a call back. :( I did clean the fire box out ,lot of dust on the flue shelf ,but nothing out of the ordinary except some unburnt coal cause the fire went out in the back of the stove. After looking at the depth of the fire box I think I was averaging a 12'' bed instead of a 6-8'' could I have been loading the stove to much? Another concern I have is the building sits against a bank higher than the roof I am wondering if this is reaching havoc on my flue draft. My flue is 14 ft 8" SS double wall from the stove straight up out the roof . 3' 6'' is above the roof.
I can make temp with a wood fire in a short time so I figure the draft must be Ok . Could I be wrong?

Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:24 pm

Your chimney may not sustain a good draft with the lower stack temperature of a coal fire. Wood offers little resistance to airflow through the firebox, and normally causes a higher stack temperature...hence a stronger draft.

How far above the roof peak is the chimney?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:31 pm

A deep bed of coal is good, I don't believe you can have too deep a coal bed, unless the draft is too low to pull enough combustion air through the deep bed [lots of resistance to air flow].

Your chimney will draw well when it's really hot. A wood fire has a very hot exhaust temperature, and therefore can create plenty of draft from all the heat..

A coal fire has relatively cool exhaust temps.. and will need more natural draft from it's chimney, or it will have problems like you are experiencing.

I'd say add 8' or so to the chimney. I believe this is the problem.

If you have a manometer, to check and monitor your actual chimney draft, you won't be guessing on the draft.. a Dywer Mark II, model 25 costs around $25-30 and are often less on Ebay. this is a good item to have.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:43 pm

The most I could add would be additional 2 ftand that would give me 5' 6'' above. I figured running double wall inside the building vs. single wall helps hold the heat to create draft.
I wanted to purchase a manometer and could not find one local. I am having a heck of atime finding 8'' double wall duratech since heating season is almost over.

mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:51 pm

5' 6" above the roof penetration or the peak?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:56 pm

When searching for a new manometer, this is the place where I found it at the best "delivered" price (though with deeper searching it may perhaps be found for even less):

http://www.coleparmer.com/

I ordered it on the weekend, and it arrived at my house on Monday (with no extra special freight option selected). I was amazed they could deliver that quickly.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: oliver power On: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:37 am

Your building is setting up against a bank higher than the chimney? You may want a hat over the top of your chimney to prevent down preasure surpressing flue gasses trying to escape the chimney. A simple hat, about 6 to 8 inches over the top of chimney. And about 4 to 6 inches bigger than chimney diameter. Not a chimney cap. I've seen chimney caps hinder draft in coal stoves. In some cases, you could buy the chimney cap that fits your metal chimney, then gut it out, leaving only the hat. Or, make the hat out of copper, or a good stainless material. In this case, I don't think adding to the height of your chimney is the answer. A hat, as well as the advice given from other members, and I think you'll be in good shape.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:52 am

The 5'6'' is above the roof penetration the roof is a 4/12 pitch steel building with a seamless roof . If I add any more stack above the roof I would have wind issues and no way to support the stack . With a 4/12 pitch I am above the 4ft of anything within 10 ft of the stack. Also I have to completly close the MPD after the stove gets to 120/130 or I will never get more than a few hours burn time before I need to refuel. When I burned the Bit coal the stack looked like the old K-4 locomotive engine and did not enter the building at all with the load door open and the MPD open for refueling. I need to get a manometer for sure to confirm the draft .
I have the duratech hat on the stack ,it does have the screen in it should I remove it . The building is 250 ft from my house surrounded by woods so I thought the screen is a anti spark device with all the leaves and dry brush not to mention the wind since I am in a hollow on top of the mountain.

I am going to finish cleaning everything.Try to get a manometer and fire the boiler Friday night or Sat Morning since the weekend shows temps lower than the 50s 60s that we are going to see today and Friday . Switch to a third coal supplier as Amos mentioned and go for it again. My father in law came to my shop last Sunday ( he is in his upper 60s and burned coal all his life) thaught he was going to show me everything i was doing wrong and left frustrated as I was scratching his head said I should have purchased the Harman boiler if I wanted a hand fed. Also I have a co2 dectector 4 ft from the boiler and with all the wind and opening the door I have zero detection. I would think with a poor draft I would have detected something.

If I can not increase heat and burn time I am going to forget about the wood and look at a AHS coal gun and move forward. The amount of time I have messing with this stove and expense is sucking the wind out of any savings or value. :?

mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:28 am

The anti-spark screen may be clogged with soot, I would check it out.

If I can not increase heat and burn time I am going to forget about the wood and look at a AHS coal gun and move forward.


I hate to see anyone rip out a boiler after only a few firings, but I do think if you want to end the frustration and really get busy burning coal...a stoker is the way to go. I had a combination hand-fed wood/coal boiler and ended up replacing it with an EFM 520 stoker boiler...and I've never looked back.

-Rob
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:30 am

UPDATE......
Another weekend and no luck!! I cleaned the boiler swept all the ash in every crevice, added 2 ft to the stack of double wall from the boiler out. As everyone knows the temps in Pa were in the 60s with the cold coming for the weekend so I wanted to give this DS boiler one more shot.

I loaded up with a nice small wood fire of oak scraps to the boiler warmed up then added a bed of coal. Everything was burning good this was at 7:30 last night. Went up to the house for a 1/2 hour came down the boiler temp was at 160*. Nice red bed of coal with the blue flames dancing so I loaded the stove left the MPD open since the stack temp looked good and the temp outside was warm. Went back up to the house watched TV till 9:00 noticed the temp was at 180* coming to the house so I shut off the oil boiler switched over to the DS to feed my house . :) Went backed down topped off the stove for evening loaded a nice bed in the middle temps were 190* at the boiler. Now this would be about 110 lbs of coal I have loaded at this point. I went up to the house was happy as a clam told my wife we should be good for the evening. I watched the crazy flying Alaska and Gold miner shows dozed off woke up at 11:00 .Looked at my boiler temp at the house that the DS is feeding was a nice 180. I said to my wife should I check on it ? Then I thought 110lbs should last till morning and I was so happy to see the temp. at 180* so I went to bed thinking YEA.

Woke up at 4:30 I heard the heat kick on for our bedroom noticed the temp in the room did not rise from the baseboard as usual, I knew. :cry: I got dress went down the boiler temp was at 80* . The coal bed was gone with a shovel of unburnt coal with a small glow. The fire was about out I shook the grates for a pan of ash and threw some wood on to build another coal bed..... :x At this point in the game the boiler wins !!!

I have tried everything I am left with one question... "Who is using a DS #3 C Boiler and I want to see it in action ?"



Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

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