New Boiler Temps

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: europachris On: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:28 am

I think we all understand the time and frustration issues you must be going through, macdabs. And I feel I can speak for everyone here that our main purpose and intent is to help you fix and/or resolve your performance problems (with the boiler, that is.... ;) ). It just becomes incredibly frustrating for a bunch of DIY "Fixers" to sit helpless while you continue to have problems that aren't fixed.

Thank yourself for not being Sting.....that boiler would have had a stick of dynamite fed to it already....several times over.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:19 am

Why I have not installed a Baro damper yet or taken pictures of the fire box?? ...... Time!!! Time!!! My day starts at 4 am in the morning and ends at 10:00 at night . I have several employees and fires to put out all day long and my personel life with all the problems including,my family :( ,all the pet projects takes a back seat to my business. I am a type A to the max...My wife adds to "ss" to the end of that also!


I know that you are just trying to make good of a bad situation, no slamming here...but after reading the quote above I wondered why you chose a hand-fed boiler to begin with? It doesn't sound like your schedule allows for the 12 hour shake/reload schedule that a hand-fed requires. Even if you get this thing to start building temperature I doubt you will be happy with it.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Rice/buck
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: oliver power On: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:17 pm

macdabs wrote::| :| Hey guys slow down!! I appreciate the help not the slamming.. Let me explain a few things . The problem with this boiler has me upset to the max not to mention the amount of $$$$ I have in this project.

I know I need to take pictures of the fire box . I appreciate the help and advice everybody has given! I changed coal types three times , purchased a manometer, removed the primary loop,added 2 ft more flue pipe and a MPD. MY ears our open!!! MY wallet has been open !! I have called the dealer ... I have had two commercial plumbing guys with 20 years in the industry look at the boiler several times.. both say take it back or sell it for scrap..

Why I have not installed a Baro damper yet or taken pictures of the fire box?? ...... Time!!! Time!!! My day starts at 4 am in the morning and ends at 10:00 at night . I have several employees and fires to put out all day long and my personel life with all the problems including,my family :( ,all the pet projects takes a back seat to my business. I am a type A to the max...My wife adds to "ss" to the end of that also!

Enough of the bio.. I asked this before .. "Show me who is heating with a DS Boiler with zone pumps ?How much sq ft.are you heating? When can I see it?" So far in my area one has been returned the other has replaced the Samson valve and chain also. They are heating eight cast rads with gravity.

Mac
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

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Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: oliver power On: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:48 pm

macdabs wrote::| :| Hey guys slow down!! I appreciate the help not the slamming.. Let me explain a few things . The problem with this boiler has me upset to the max not to mention the amount of $$$$ I have in this project.

I know I need to take pictures of the fire box . I appreciate the help and advice everybody has given! I changed coal types three times , purchased a manometer, removed the primary loop,added 2 ft more flue pipe and a MPD. MY ears our open!!! MY wallet has been open !! I have called the dealer ... I have had two commercial plumbing guys with 20 years in the industry look at the boiler several times.. both say take it back or sell it for scrap..

Why I have not installed a Baro damper yet or taken pictures of the fire box?? ...... Time!!! Time!!! My day starts at 4 am in the morning and ends at 10:00 at night . I have several employees and fires to put out all day long and my personel life with all the problems including,my family :( ,all the pet projects takes a back seat to my business. I am a type A to the max...My wife adds to "ss" to the end of that also!

Enough of the bio.. I asked this before .. "Show me who is heating with a DS Boiler with zone pumps ?How much sq ft.are you heating? When can I see it?" So far in my area one has been returned the other has replaced the Samson valve and chain also. They are heating eight cast rads with gravity.

Mac
OK macdabs, Now we hear ya from the heart. That's what we wanted to hear. We were starting to wonder if you were playing us. We are on your side, and want to see this work for you. A picture of the inside would tell a lot. I have employee's. I know all to well how running a business can be overwelming. I put in long hours myself. It starts any time now, and will go through most of next winter. This is the only time of year I might get a breather.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Freddy On: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:12 am

macdabs wrote: I have had two commercial plumbing guys with 20 years in the industry look at the boiler several times.. both say take it back or sell it for scrap..


Two on site professionals? I'd be inclined to take their advice. However, at this point I'd add a by pass pipe to help the boiler stays up to temp and barometric damper & see what happens. If those two things don't work, I would most certainly take the pro's advice.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:14 am

Coalfire wrote:
markviii wrote:
macdabs wrote:I installed the new Samson valve. Boiler temps have remained steady at 145* a 25 degree increase over previous . I can see the vent doors open when I bank the fire something that was unnoticable before with the other Samson valve. My shop has not called for heat most of the weekend since the temps were warmer and was already at 65 to start with. I bumped the temp to 69 yesterday and the boiler continued to stay at 140*. :) I am not going to get to excited since it was already 60 out yesterday and It took two wheel barrow loads of coal to get the boiler from 60* to 145*. I did see 160* for 25 min. mid afternoon Sunday :) . I should be able to get some pics of the firebox this week. And I know I need to install a Baro damper but, I have been averaging .04 with my draft with the MPD and need to get on the roof and lift 16 ft of double wall SS flue pipe to do it. :o .

Mac


Two wheel barrow loads of coal to raise 80 gallons of water 85 degrees F!? CALL THE DEALER AND TELL THEM TO BRING A TRUCK. Unless there is something really crazy going on here, it should certainly be able to reach operating temperature with no load on it. I understand that you are not running a baro, but your draft is not out of line at all. I have run a handfed boiler with a draft around -0.08, and I had the opposite problem as you. That thing would going into meltdown with no load on a windy day. The bottom line is that this boiler is listed as wood or coal capable, and it does not reach temperature when fired with anthracite...if the dealer cannot find something wrong with your installation or firing technique, then they need to make things right with you.



He has a coal boiler. The only differance is the wood only ones have more air adjustments up top. I actually stoped at the manufactur to look at these boilers, just a firebox with a water jacket around and a baffel in the top to keep the heat in. I talked to my coal guy who has one and said it will run him out of the house. I was suprised at how simple these boilers are, I am still wondering about setup and technique.

I am where you are Markviii I am at a loss also


Eric


Mac never mentioned any baffle !

Could it be, besides a defective Samson valve, he is also missing the baffle ?

That would explain a whole lot.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Coalfire On: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:52 am

I spoke to him twice on the phone, I am pretty sure he said there was a baffel in there but I don't remember. That is why when we he gets a chance to get a pic of the fire box it will help. On a side note My coal guy has one of these boilers and has no damper manual or baro. He said his works perfect. Now he is heating with baseboard so I guess that would make a differance on the water temp he needs vs what mac needs.



Eric
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:15 pm

macdabs wrote:.. I have had two commercial plumbing guys with 20 years in the industry look at the boiler several times.. both say take it back or sell it for scrap..


I would discount their advice unless they have a great deal of experience with coal. When I worked with oil burners it was my experience that most plumbers knew nothing about oil fires.

As europachris has posted, the performance of this boiler just does not make sense; even if the stack temp. is 1000 degrees it should heat its own water with no load attached.

In trying to simulate the performance of this boiler I think it could be done by never letting the fire get fully established before adding more coal. With fairly open primary air and almost continual adding of fresh coal the heat output will be retarded by the heat absorption of the fresh coal. Two wheelbarrow loads of coal sounds to me that this is what is happening.The ideal fire should look like the mayor's avatar.

When burning wood the fire is quickly established and the boiler heats,coal will take a lot longer to establish itself and begin to really radiate.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: cabinover On: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:12 pm

Huh :gee: :pepsi:
cabinover
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid Axeman Anderson 130
Baseburners & Antiques: Sparkle #12
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Buckwheat, Nut
Other Heating: LP Hot air. WA TX for coal use.

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: oliver power On: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:29 am

Will we ever hear the out come???????
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:15 pm

The outcome has been the same . Anybody interested in a boiler that is built like a tank, hardly used?
Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: cabinover On: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:46 am

And with that I'm done as well. It's been fun.
cabinover
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid Axeman Anderson 130
Baseburners & Antiques: Sparkle #12
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Buckwheat, Nut
Other Heating: LP Hot air. WA TX for coal use.

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:51 am

Cabinover, I can't say it has been fun. :o Has been a learning curve. I know what to look for in a boiler and dealer the expensive way.I appreciate everyones help on this forum. I have had plumbers, other wood/coal burners , and supply reps all visit and look at the situation. They all agree the DS boiler claims to perform as advertised. No specs,no certifications,no standards = no heat ! :sick: I assumed that a boiler had to meet a standard to be sold to the public for performance ,I was wrong. I am going to move forward and look at the AHS,EFM or a Keystoker. So far the AHS looks like a well made boiler with a company that is growing. What make me sad is what do I do with this 1200 lb DS scrap ? I do not wish anyone to go through what I have in expense or frustration.
Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: oliver power On: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:02 am

macdabs wrote:Cabinover, I can't say it has been fun. :o Has been a learning curve. I know what to look for in a boiler and dealer the expensive way.I appreciate everyones help on this forum. I have had plumbers, other wood/coal burners , and supply reps all visit and look at the situation. They all agree the DS boiler claims to perform as advertised. No specs,no certifications,no standards = no heat ! :sick: I assumed that a boiler had to meet a standard to be sold to the public for performance ,I was wrong. I am going to move forward and look at the AHS,EFM or a Keystoker. So far the AHS looks like a well made boiler with a company that is growing. What make me sad is what do I do with this 1200 lb DS scrap ? I do not wish anyone to go through what I have in expense or frustration.
Mac
Won't DS Machine stand behind this boiler? Seams as though it's bad for business to sell boilers that are useless. Well, 50% useless if it's wood/coal. They should compensate you in some way. Something would be better than nothing. I can't believe they would simply wash thier hands of it, knowing it has never performed on coal. And more so, you're willing to let them do it. Maybe I'm wrong, but for some time now, I've had this gut feeling that thiers more to this story than we know.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: xaos On: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:03 am

Cabinover, I can't say it has been fun. :o Has been a learning curve. I know what to look for in a boiler and dealer the expensive way.I appreciate everyone's help on this forum. I have had plumbers, other wood/coal burners , and supply reps all visit and look at the situation. They all agree the DS boiler claims to perform as advertised. No specs,no certifications,no standards = no heat !


All this and still not even one picture of the install :idea: (Well 2 or 3 small, ones. Closeups of gauges)

I know its lent but this all seems fishy, we are all busy and this is one of the longest threads in forum history...
and I will say it again "No Pictures of the install"

macdabs good luck in your future endeavors..

Mods Lock it Down!
xaos
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Auger
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker 1
Coal Size/Type: Rice

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