New Boiler Temps

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:26 pm

Since it is a threaded barb fitting would it be ok to drill and tap the flue collar of the stove? That would give me the option to install a fine plug for removel and make a nice neat install without drilling into the double wall pipe I have.

Thanks for input,

Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: oliver power On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:39 pm

macdabs wrote:Since it is a threaded barb fitting would it be ok to drill and tap the flue collar of the stove? That would give me the option to install a fine plug for removel and make a nice neat install without drilling into the double wall pipe I have.

Thanks for input,

Mac
If you can't get it in the flue collar, use a 2 or 3 inch hole saw to cut through the outside layer of the double wall pipe. Finish it off nice and neat, Tap center for checking draft. EDIT: Another question; I don't see any insulated jacket on your boiler. Are you loosing lots of radiant heat??? Maybe build a small insulated room around the boiler???
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:13 am

I installed the manometer fitting in the stove coller drilled it then took a tap for the barb fitting all went well. Unfortunatly the house is back on the oil furnace and I ordered 300 gallon . I switched the shop over to the boiler the temp in the shop is 65*to start outside temp is 16*. The boiler is around 120* I attached photo of the damper closed with the manometer reading . I am lost on what to do next... :cry:
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macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: paulfun On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:02 am

Someone who knows needs to go take a look at this and figure out whats wrong here!
paulfun
 
Stove/Furnace Make: harman/Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: magnum/koker

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Coalfire On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:08 am

You said boiler is at 120* is this with coal? and how long was the fire burning?
Coalfire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 96K btu Circulator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:23 am

That was burning from 8Pm-11:oo pm last night . I went down at 5 am and the boiler is still 120* check the draft has not changed. The coal bed was all red looked good . I just refilled the stove with another 100 lbs. I am almost out of the 1.2 tons of Hard coal in less than 2 weeks and I didn't even operate the stove the 60* days and I burned wood most of Sunday. I have tried everything I can think of and I am back to my original question "who else is using DS machine boiler and is it working?"

Mac :sick:
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: oliver power On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:46 am

paulfun wrote:Someone who knows needs to go take a look at this and figure out whats wrong here!
YES, I agree! I can't think of anything else other than poor heat transfer. The question is; is it poor coal, or boiler design. The coal fire looked good in the picture but, how much heat is comming off it? The wood fire appears to be higher in the firebox. If the coal fire needs to be up at height wood fire reaches, it may be poor design. Hard to say looking at pictures. Draft looks good. As Sting repeated over and over, without a manometer, draft was a guess. Macdabs, where are you located? You may want to fill in your location. One of us may be near you. An experienced coal burner may spot problem at a glance. As of this very moment, I think we're stumped.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:07 am

At 120 degrees how far open is your draft control?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:55 am

Here is pics of the fire, draft ,boiler temp, flue draft. I topped of with as much coal as I could get in the box before I left at 7:15 am.

Thanks,
Mac
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macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: cabinover On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:34 am

That .07" seems kind of high but not crazy high that it should be eating all of your heat. Here's what I'd do if it were mine and without a zone calling could not get the boiler to temp on coal.

1. Buy 200# of different coal to rule out the coal being the real problem.
2. If that didn't answer the question I'd be after the maker of the boiler to answer why it isn't working.
cabinover
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid Axeman Anderson 130
Baseburners & Antiques: Sparkle #12
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Buckwheat, Nut
Other Heating: LP Hot air. WA TX for coal use.

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: europachris On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:46 am

I think -.07" is too high, especially for anthracite coal. Anthtracite needs only enough draft to maintain negative pressure over the fire at full burn rate. If you had a very restrictive gas path through the boiler, you'd want to check the draft at the firedoor, but I'm guessing that boiler is passing the gas like Sting at a beer festival.

You really only need -.02" overfire draft with the coal. Any more than that and you're sucking heat up the stack.

Another thought - with a wood fire, you have a very uneven fire - logs here and there, some coals, etc. The airflow is quite turbulent in the firebox. With a full bed of anthracite, the fire is evenly distributed and the airflow through the fire is more linear and smooth. With the top flue outlet and likely very little baffling in the firebox, the hot gasses just flow smoothly straight up and out, leaving the cooler boundary layer of air against the firebox walls. The more turbulent wood fire "washes" the cooler air off the firebox walls and obtains better heat transfer.
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:53 am

The .07 was after I took the pic and opened the door for the ash. It will settle around .o6. I figured with the 6-10* outside that # is reasonable . The temps are going to rise today I figured the draft will drop plus I hate to close the air intake damper any more and loose the 120*. I would like to get some heat out of the thing since it is costing me 30 bucks a day in coal to sit and keep the water from freezing all my plumbing work. I am on my third source for coal and the results have all been the same as far as output temp.

Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: titleist1 On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:08 am

I think you have pretty much eliminated everything as well as you can. It is definitely time to get the boiler mfg to prove it can burn coal well enough to perform. It seems you have turned into the DS Machine coal boiler tech support and R&D branch.

As you have been asking over and over.....Where is one of these machines currently being used as a coal boiler??? Can they set one up at the mfg and let it run? Should be pretty easy to set up for a mfg I would think.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 am

I have run a draft stronger than that on my hand-fed boiler, and I had the opposite problem. I couldn't keep it from bumping the dump zone on a calm day! I really doubt that the draft is your problem. I hate to say it, but I am beginning to wonder if the firebox and heat exchanger in this boiler are just not a good match for anthracite. It is time to get the dealer and manufacturer to either make a house call and get it running, or take it back and refund your money. Either you are missing something, or they did not spec the right product for the right application.

One thing that did look odd in your pictures, I expected the inlet damper to be open wider with the boiler that far below temperature setpoint. Maybe it was just the angle of the picture...
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Boiler Temps

PostBy: macdabs On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:51 am

I just got off the phone with the dealer. I explained my frustration and everything I have done, the readings, the amount of coal and followed with can I see a working unit with zone pumps. He claims they have units that are out with pumps and changed the subject to I will get back to you. :x I am starting to worry cause of some of the questions he asked me. "What do you think is wrong" " Besides the boiler not making temp is everything else working ok". What the heck kinda of question is that? :shock: I said this boiler has consumed all my time for over two months , no corners have been cut , no expense spared and is eaten 1 ton of coal in 10 days. The best temp I got out of this boiler was Sunday burning wood when it was 50* outside. :mad: Sorry for the vent! I just want to move forward even if it comes down to removing the boiler and installing something else. This is the last shop I will be building in my lifetime and have put my best effort to do everything first class .

Mac
macdabs
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 260
Coal Size/Type: Pea
Other Heating: Pellet,oil
Stove/Furnace Make: AHS
Stove/Furnace Model: S260

Visit Hitzer Stoves