Piioneer sending hot coal over the edge...

This is my second winter with the LL Pioneer top vent and I'm very happy with the performance. I get my coal from Jeddo in Hazelton. With the colder than average winter I'm seeing some coal in my ash bin and long durations of maximum burning have created a frozen ash fall over the edge. The ash will clump together and hang out until it crashes down. This I don't mind but there is sometimes hot coals in the bin. My settings are Min - 5, Max - 28, CFT - 8. Should I lower the Max setting or adjust the CFT? How can I completely burn the coal before the edge? I am noticing the fire is pretty close to the hopper inlet and I wouldn't want it going back any further. BTW Jeddo coal burns super good!

thanks,
rich

customfab wrote:This is my second winter with the LL Pioneer top vent and I'm very happy with the performance. I get my coal from Jeddo in Hazelton. With the colder than average winter I'm seeing some coal in my ash bin and long durations of maximum burning have created a frozen ash fall over the edge. The ash will clump together and hang out until it crashes down. This I don't mind but there is sometimes hot coals in the bin. My settings are Min - 5, Max - 28, CFT - 8. Should I lower the Max setting or adjust the CFT? How can I completely burn the coal before the edge? I am noticing the fire is pretty close to the hopper inlet and I wouldn't want it going back any further. BTW Jeddo coal burns super good!

thanks,
rich

Did you have the grate out ? If so did you make sure the gasket was installed ?Thanks ,Dave

Make sure you don't have any air leaks on the fire grate as stated, and also check your draft.

What's your FR if you look at your thermostat, press the setup button once, when you are pushing hot coals off the grate.
Yes, lower you max a couple points, could solve it,

but if it's burning back, that is an air leak normally on/around the grates or too much draft and pulling down thru your hopper.

WNY wrote:Make sure you don't have any air leaks on the fire grate as stated, and also check your draft.

What's your FR if you look at your thermostat, press the setup button once, when you are pushing hot coals off the grate.
Yes, lower you max a couple points, could solve it,

but if it's burning back, that is an air leak normally on/around the grates or too much draft and pulling down thru your hopper.

Thats a good question as well do you have a baro ? Is it set properly ? Powervent or chimney ? Dave

interesting thread!

My chosen set up is two Pocos side by side. Same coal and same set up and yet they behave differently. I have swapped over powervents, grates etc. and am pinning it down to the Fasco combustion motor. No dirt on fins that I can see but I am still playing. When the weather warms a little so I don't need both on at once I will play some more. Love the setup and the stoves so no real complaints. Coal seems excellent but I have no control samples. They will not run at max 40 without coal spilling but will run at min 2 so I think it's down to coal variability. So this spring perhaps I will write my first post grad paper at coal college.

So as I play some more I watch HO rising daily. I am feeling sorry for those that have not got the message yet. When it got really cold I was moving 200# daily between the three stoves and grumbling a little as the door to my basement was iced up solid (first time ever). Big stoves... big job to do.

Now if only I could have my own nuclear reactor I could avoid all of this ... but until then.

I have a barometric damper and a pretty tall chimney and the draft seems good. I do have a 4ft horizontal run that I haven't cleaned yet. There is definately a gasket behind the burner as I have assembled it myself. It's morning and the stove is firing good. There is about 3" of coal I can see behind the burn. The firing rate is 81 now and I see 1 or 2 burnt coals in the pan and the ashes are sticking out 1-2" with some hot coal in it. I may try to lower the max to 26 or 27.

thanks,
rich

customfab wrote:I have a barometric damper and a pretty tall chimney and the draft seems good. I do have a 4ft horizontal run that I haven't cleaned yet. There is definately a gasket behind the burner as I have assembled it myself. It's morning and the stove is firing good. There is about 3" of coal I can see behind the burn. The firing rate is 81 now and I see 1 or 2 burnt coals in the pan and the ashes are sticking out 1-2" with some hot coal in it. I may try to lower the max to 26 or 27.

thanks,
rich

I am asking about the gasket between the cast iron grate and the steel feeder body . I just want to make sure I wasn't misunderstood with what I am asking . Is the baro set properly as far as limiting the draft to -.04 . It may just be different coal . I have seen Pioneers as low as 32 but not to often . How old is the stove ? Was it a coaltrol retrofit ? Thanks ,Dave

I had the identicle problem when i picked up a used pioneer, my max feed rate was at i believe 27 or 28. After checking many things it ended up that the combustion blower wheel was very dirty, cleaned it with compressed air after removing of course, could then run a max feed rate of 50 with no coals off the grate.

I bought the stove new in Feb 2010. I followed the video instructions carefully and am sure all gaskets were used properly. It came with the coaltrol. I was playing with the damper the last few weeks. It's drawing quite well but I don't have the tool to measure it. I will try the combustion motor cleaning. I'm thinking sunday afternoon since it's supposed to be warm.

thanks for the advice,
rich

I had the blower off tonight and it had heavy dust inside. I half removed it with the stove still running and was able to clean and replace without killing the fire. The bolts were a little toasty! I also cleaned the other blower inlet grate which was half blocked. The fire looks very robust and the coals are white hot with a 28 firing rate. I'll have to wait and check out the ashes but it definitely helped. Thanks Bity

Hot coal going over again. The Max feed rate is at 30. After a cold night in the low teens the stove is now trying to get up to temp. The FR was 75. Perhaps it's the underside of the burner itself that is blocked. We're going away for 2 weeks and plan to turn off the fire. Any more advice is greatly appreciated since I can now disassemble if need be.

thanks,
rich

In my experience at max feed rate 30 @100, I still have ~ 2.5 " of ash on the grate.

You need in my understanding a 40 plus feed rate @100 % to get hot coals to the grate edge.

Unless there is something wrong with the coaltrol logic or your coal trol is a lot earlier version that has a significantly different feed rate scaling.

Clean the pusher plate, fines etc effect it greatly. Also the alignment of the cam/bearing is key. The push surfaces can warp
from jamming. Once clean , you can set the max feed rate so hot coals will be just short
of the edge, to do that set temp for something the stove could never get, only then can you dial in the max feed rate. Keep in
mind, draft, water content of coal, and the coal itself will effect your results. But even with those variables, you can get it
pretty close to ideal. Realistically, glowing coal past the air holes in the grate is a waste. You can score an extra 100* pushing
hot coals to the end, but efficiency falls way off.

A couple more items to add to what has been said, the feed rate is partially dependent on coal characteristics after all the other factors have been attended to, some coal has less carbon content and therefore takes longer to burn completely resulting in a lower Max value. Also we have used different sized bearings on the Pocono, a 3/4" bearing will have higher max feed rate for the same quality coal than the 7/8" bearing. Coal from the same mine can be different so keeping an eye on what your stove is doing when you attend to the daily routine is always a good idea. Max feed rate is not important, the only real consideration is preventing those little red fellows from jumping into the ash pan before they have given up all their available heat. All stoker motors have slightly different speed and can also contribute to the differences in Max and Min values.

The ash fusing that was described in the original post is also based on coal characteristics, mixing in some buckwheat sized coal will usually solve the issue and help you get a little more heat out of the stove in the colder months.

As has already been stated, proper maintenance of your stove will ensure long and trouble free operation!

I am back from vacation and was able to dismantle the stove. burner was in perfect shape. The one gasket strip on the lower portion of the burner came off so I put another piece on and it's pretty tight. The chimney outlet had some build-up there (where the diagonal channels meet) and a lot fell down into the ash pan area while cleaning. My horizontal run has about 1" of ash. I got her lit on the first try but hot coals are still going over. It's raining outside. Maybe that has something to do with it. Could the forced combustion blower output be down creating the slow burn characteristics?

thanks,
rich