Rail service to mines

Rail service to mines

PostBy: Treeman On: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:00 pm

Does any one know which mines have rail service? Or any idea what rail service costs per mile? I live near a siding and wondered how complicated it would be to arrange a rail car shipment. Thanx
Treeman
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: AA130FIREMAN On: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:18 pm

I believe ??? the Blue Mountain & Reading R/R may own the track by Tamaqua. South Tamaqua Coal Poctets is right there. YOU BURN THAT MUCH ?
AA130FIREMAN
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:49 pm

Call Norfolk Southern Railway. They will be able to help you. They are a major transporter of coal and have connections to all the short lines that lead to PA Anthracite mines. A couple of years ago I asked Superior Breaker if they could ship by coal. They said yes, the coal would be trucked to a coal siding and dumped into the coal car. I abandoned the effort when I couldn't find a suitable rail yard locally that was interested. I was hopping the local yard that receives stone aggregate by rail would be interested. They just smiled and then laughed. Good luck.

A reasonable description of the Norfolk Southern Railway is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_Southern_Railway

Also look at the Norfolk Southern web site:

http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/ ... Transload/

Please post what you find out.
Yanche
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:18 am

The problem I see with rail for the average (or above average) person is moving the coal after the rail car gets to your location. It's been 35 years since I dealt with any rail transport but I do remember the boss having a small panic each time a rail car came in. We had 24 hours to unload it or there was a penalty. I never saw paperwork, but I remember the boss saying it was $750 a day to let the car sit if it was not unloaded. Assuming things are similar today, how do you unload and transport an entire boxcar from the rail yard to your place in one day? A box car will hold approx 100 ton.
Freddy
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: whistlenut On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:16 am

I agree with freddy. We would love the option, and saving more money, but on the 'realistic scale', you would have to rent/lease the use of the tracks, siding, and their extraction equipment and now the $20 a ton you saved over direct trucking is lost. A 'regional depot' would work, but the owner would become a commodity dealer.

Understand most of us have tried to re-think the delivery system, and agree that it has to be a 'bigger system' than one person buying one rail-car of coal, once a year. The breakers would laugh at us.....however 50 cars in one order might be feasible.
It would take millions to set up a distribution network again, but we sure support your desire to be more efficient if possible. My .02

-2 here and the wind is blowing 25 mph........4 teeth, 4.5 air :roll: :? :) :o
Last edited by whistlenut on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
whistlenut
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: steamup On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:25 am

REading and Northern services most anthracite producers.


http://www.readingnorthern.com/coal.shtml
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


A couple are serviced by svrr. They both interchange with Norfolk and Southern. I think one is directly on a N&S line.

http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/ ... e_ops.html

You won't order less than 100 tons of one type of bulk through rail.

You need to be able to unload the car the day it arrives or the railroad charges demurrage which is rent for the car. Demurrage charges are pricey, sometimes humdreds of dollars per day per car.

By the way, you would be dealing with mutiple railroads, the anthracite producer, someone to unload and a local trucking company. The deal would be very complicated.
steamup
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: Treeman On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:32 am

I have contacted the railroad co. and only been able to leave messages. I have a place to unload the coal but dont know yet what it will cost either. Waiting on thier call also. Next step is to find a mine that is capable of loading rail cars. Someone mentioned superior but I called them and they are not able. If there are no mines able to fill the cars, there's no point in pursuing this further. Thanks much for the info so far!
Treeman
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:39 am

Treeman wrote:I have a place to unload the coal but dont know yet what it will cost either.

This project could get pricey in a hurry. Can your siding use a bottom dump rail car? Unloading 100 tons from a rail car that can't dump is no easy task. Then you still have to move it.
coaledsweat
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: Pacowy On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:34 am

For anyone close to NEPA, it's hard to imagine that the numbers would favor rail by enough to make it worthwhile. You might save on the line-haul, but transloading and local delivery wouldn't be cheap, and, unless you are a really huge anthracite user, even the carrying cost of the big inventory you'd be holding shouldn't be overlooked. And your unloading arrangements need to be "on call", as you may not know with any reliability when your railcar is actually going to arrive.

If you decide to proceed, I'd do it at a time of year when the temperature is sure to be above freezing. Where a truck might avoid freezing up on a run of a few hours from a breaker to your coal pile, a railcar typically will take many days (or more) to move from pickup through interchange and classification processes to delivery at the unloading facility. Unless your unloading facility is set up to thaw railcars, that would be something to avoid.

Good luck.

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: steamup On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:43 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
Treeman wrote:I have a place to unload the coal but dont know yet what it will cost either.

This project could get pricey in a hurry. Can your siding use a bottom dump rail car? Unloading 100 tons from a rail car that can't dump is no easy task. Then you still have to move it.



The local power plant here uses an excavator on top of the railcar to unload.

If you can find a crazy backhoe operator like this one you have it made:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v517/ ... 6b6ccd.pbw

I wonder what OSHA would say?

The only thing you save on is the difference shipping unless the breaker gives you a volume discount.
steamup
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: coal berner On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:26 pm

Treeman wrote:I have contacted the railroad co. and only been able to leave messages. I have a place to unload the coal but dont know yet what it will cost either. Waiting on thier call also. Next step is to find a mine that is capable of loading rail cars. Someone mentioned superior but I called them and they are not able. If there are no mines able to fill the cars, there's no point in pursuing this further. Thanks much for the info so far!

Blaschak does RR loading right below the breaker
Summit Anthracite also has RR loading
Schuylkill coal Processing might still have RR loading
Superior could use the same one as Summit if they were interested in doing a RR car or cars .
South Tamaqua coal pockets has RR loading
American Premium Anthracite has RR loading They are behind S.T.C.P.
Try calling UAE Harmony mine they might do it for 100 tons or more
Hegins mining co.also has RR loading
Sherman coal co will use Hegins slide
Reading Anthracite Has RR loading

Most of the bigger Companies have RR loading

http://www.blaschakcoal.com/

http://www.ibegin.com/directory/us/penn ... h-town-rd/

http://www.local.com/business/details/t ... c-8857170/



http://www.local.com/business/details/t ... l-8862615/

http://www.local.com/business/details/m ... c-8977804/

http://readinganthracite.com/

http://www.local.com/business/details/t ... o-8866238/

http://www.local.com/business/details/h ... c-8866035/

You can also use coal brokers that are already set up to use RR

http://www.penncoal.com/

http://www.centraliacoal.com/l1.html
coal berner
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: Treeman On: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:07 pm

JC, thank you for the list. That is info I can use. I have already considered the issue of frozen coal and the bottom dump rail car. I will post as soon as I know anything else. Maybe it wont work out but I think its worth checking into. Thanks all again for the input!
Treeman
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: Bratkinson On: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:45 pm

Based on my reading in numerous places, it would seem to me that getting a 'big' railroad to move a single hopper car of coal from point A to point B is something they would rather not do. When it comes to moving coal, what "they" want is 8-10 or more unit trains of 100+ hopper cars of coal PER DAY moving on their tracks. That's very profitable to them! Considering that the labor cost alone to stop a 'local' switcher at some siding, pick up a load (don't forget, they had to drop off an empty car first!), and reassemble the train, etc, makes single-car railroading pretty much a thing of the past. Perhaps a shortline such as Reading & Northern would entertain such a move, but both ends of the trip would have to be on their road or you're back to dealing with the 'big boys' again.

However...

Another choice, and more easily achieved, would be to use intermodal. Arrange with a freight forwarder to get one or more empty 53' containers (on chassis) dropped off at the breaker. Load 'em up with 20 tons or so of coal, and call the forwarder to come and get 'em! The problem with this choice is that other than the East Coast from NYC to Miami, I am unaware of any East Coast intermodal routes other than, say, Philly to Boston via Albany, or something like that. Going from central PA to upstate NY, for example, has no direct route via intermodal. It's also a very short haul and may become cost prohibitive once everything is totaled.

In short, simply arranging for your own trucker with a dump trailer to bobtail to the breaker and dump it in your yard would seem the easiest, as well as the most economical, as there are no other 'middle-men' to deal with. With fuel prices going through the roof lately, I'd figure $2.00/mile or more, for an owner-operator trucker, each way! Check with your local highway construction companies...they may have a trucker with a dump trailer looking for work this time of year...

Just my $.02 worth...
Bratkinson
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:27 am

Unit train service has lower costs (and rates) than single car service, but that doesn't mean the big railroads don't move single cars. There still are plenty of classification yards and manifest trains. Especially with a shortline doing the dirty work, I don't think there would be a problem getting service for a single car.

As far as I know, CP has intermodal facilities in NEPA and upstate NY. But to use intermodal trailers/containers you'd need to be talking about bagged coal on pallets. With drayage to/from the intermodal facilities, intermodal may have no advantage over truck.

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Rail service to mines

PostBy: Treeman On: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:28 pm

Well, not looking too good right now. $10-$13 per ton to unload the train and bring the coal to my yard. That doesn't include freight charges from the mine. Rail is going to have to be REAL cheap to make this worth while. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I'll post when I do get the rate from the rail road, they said they would call me at the end of next week. Have a good week-end!
Treeman
 
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