Battery back-up tutorial

Battery back-up tutorial

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:07 am

I have a request, We have many members who have frequent power interuptions and could benefit from having a good backup power supply. I don't mean a generator, that requires either an auto start system or someone home to start it. I mean a robust 10-12 hour battery power supply that is self charging. and can provide [I'm guessing] 500-800watts.

I'd like this thread to be an informative tutorial for those of us who are electronicly challenged to figure out how to buy or make a battery backup power supply for their stoker stove or even for the fan on a hand feed stove.

> Please explain any acronyms used, like UPS ?? uninterupted power supply ??

Make the explainations so brain-dead simple that a 8 or 10 year old could put one together. That's about where I am with electronics. I grew up with tubes and transistors!! But I do know how to wire a house.

> Please tell us about commercially available power supplies with a link to the product's site if possible. [remember that 10 year old thing]. And then explain why and how to put one to use.

> Please explain how to increase the time that a supply can provide power, can we change batteries, add batteries, etc.

> Please explain the maintenance needed to keep the batteries alive and reliable. Can automotive batteries be used or Marine batteries? Or must we use the expensive batteries used for industrial versions of backup power systems??

> I'm sure I've only scratched the surface of the many issues and questions involved, so please add additional catagories, and I'll try to create an outline or index for this thread. [that ought to challenge me too!]

Or: is there a site where a person can learn all the above??

Greg L

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LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:14 am


http://ups-manufacturer.electronic.com.tw/ups-2.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:41 am

Went to that site, and...

Well I learned a few things, but those are for European power. Input voltage 160-240V, 50-60cycles. Output 220v....

And I choked on a platefull of new acronyms...

That site is about HighSchool level. Any sites at Grade school level?? Is there one for the do-it-yourselfer using off the shelf components?

I'm afraid to price that NS power supply, I'd guess a few thousand for a 1000 watt model?

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland


PostBy: Matthaus On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:57 am

Here is a good site for us engineering types that like to "dig" a little.

http://www.smps.us/uninterruptible-power-supply.html

Not sure the subject of providing a source of back up power for a stove/boiler is achievable without a little "engineering" to make sure it suits the requirements. Of course we can provide a running quick reference of solutions as members solve the problem.

Does anyone have a back up power system/UPS for your stove or boiler?
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

PostBy: CoalBin On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:15 pm

Check out this link

http://www.butkus.org/ups/ups.htm

This is pretty much what I have done with my systems .

In my travels, I've found that there are plenty of perfectly good large UPSs sitting around with dead batteries. Ask around work. I replace the deep cycle batteries on my boat every 3 yrs after which they enjoy the easy life doing battery backup duty. I load test them once a year.

I would not recommend placing your UPS / Battery boxes anywhere near an ignition source though, when they under go charge/discharge they gas hydrogen. Its a good idea to read the link on battery safety in the link above.

Mark
CoalBin
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: DVC-500

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:16 pm

Thanks Mark, that site was very informative. Now for those who don't have access to used, or discarded power supplies, any suggestions on what new unit to buy an add larger batteries to?

Greg
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: CoalBin On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:55 pm

I would not buy new - especially if its not running sensitive mission critical equipment. I've had good luck with the APC 1400/1500s - but then again thats what I fell into. I just did a quick search on Flea-bay - I see quite a few used 1400/1500s - but if I were spending money, the 3000VA units seem like a better choice for conversion. In particular there is a 3000VA APC rackmount unit which is on there right now. It takes external batteries, its used and ships without the external battery. You would need to find out what multiple of 12V these things run on, you don't want to wind up buying cart loads of batteries to make up lets say 96V, you want 24V or 36V.

Any UPS will give you lots of run time with large batteries - the key is it being able to recharge the bats after a deep discharge. If I experience a deep discharge, I disconnect the batteries and manually charge them with an automotive charger.
CoalBin
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: DVC-500

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:48 pm

Here's a picture of my computer uninterrupted power supply (UPS). Four car battery sized deep discharge batteries in series provide the 48 volt input. The UPS inverter from an IBM mini-computer (not PC) workstation system. It's a true sine wave system with inductive filtering. Weighs 50+ lbs without the internal batteries. Powered from a dedicated lighting protected circuit and is always on. It's been running continuously for 5+ years. Feeds dedicated circuits in my house that power my computer equipment. Rated at 1400 watts output. The UPS output is aways powered by the batteries with the AC power simply recharging the energy removed from the batteries. It will power my computer, LCD display, printer, router, DSL modem, etc. for days.

I'll post my suggestions for a coal stove/boiler/furnace UPS when I get some more time. I'm real busy now getting ready for a siding contractor to replace the siding on my home.
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Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:05 pm

I see you went with the 3 tab insulating system on the batteries to prevent concrete poisoning. :)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

PostBy: JerseyCoal On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:17 pm

Hi Yanche:
That's quite a substantial set-up you have there. I wanted to mention to you that years ago I had a law/accounting office in New Jersey that was on a county road that experienced an unusually high amount of lightning activity. I had a private telephone switching computer in the basement supposedly protected by the surge protector recommended by the manufacturer. Twice in one year my system was fried during lightning storms. When I asked how that could happen with a surge protector in place, the electric utility company people told me that the surge often comes in through the GROUND WIRE. It never happened again but, I often considered rewiring the system without a ground wire.
Is your system grounded and, if so, is there a surge protector on the ground wire?
John
JerseyCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Franco Belge model 10.1475

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:21 pm

You guys need to shrink your post size or photo size to no more than 12" wide. I have to walk into the next room to read the text and see the photos on my laptop. :lol: :)

But seriously, I have my laptop at maximum screen size and sometimes someone's text doesn't wrap, or the link or photo is so wide that I only see about 1/2 of it without slewing the screen. Makes me feel small [pouting, sniff, sniff] :)

Anyway, Yanche how long would that backup power system run your AHS? and circulation pump?

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: Yanche On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:59 pm

LsFarm wrote:You guys need to shrink your post size or photo size to no more than 12" wide. I have to walk into the next room to read the text and see the photos on my laptop. :lol: :)

But seriously, I have my laptop at maximum screen size and sometimes someone's text doesn't wrap, or the link or photo is so wide that I only see about 1/2 of it without slewing the screen. Makes me feel small [pouting, sniff, sniff] :)

Anyway, Yanche how long would that backup power system run your AHS? and circulation pump?

Greg L
What's posted is low resolution, only 1024x768 pixels, 256 colors, 60% JPEG compression, 77.36 KBytes! Dumbed down from 1600x1200, 16.7 million colors, no JPEG compression, 842.89 KBytes. I thought all the VGA 680x480 displays went to the Salvation Army Thrift Store. Are you trying to view it with a cell phone browser? Seriously if your laptop is 680x480 only about half the width will display. The message text is apparently linked to the image width and doesn't scroll independently.

I'll make some calculations on powering the AHS on the UPS and post the results.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:19 pm

My company laptop is only two years old, but is set at this resolution for readablity in a sunlite cockpit. with too small of print, the text of our many documents, and other needed items wasn't readable.

My screen is a 15" diagonal and I always see the entire header of the forum and any other forum or Ebay or ANY thing else I view except for some of the posts on this forum. Somehow this forum software allows a wider than basic format post or message to be posted and that then resets the width for the rest of that thread. Prior to the too-wide post, the messages are normal width.

I'm not computer litterate enough to explain it any better.

As for the photos, it is the actual width that is important, the pixel x pixel is not only size but definition. when I shrink my photos for posting here I reset the dimension of the image in inches, not pixels. I use Photoshop and my raw photos are usually 3.+ mb and are 36" wide !! ridiculous size. I shrink them to 10", and let the pixel x pixel be whatever it is. I'm not printing out the image, I'm just posting it on a forum.

I don't use my desktop at home for much at all 'cause most of the time when I'm on the computer I'm in a hotel room at some work destination. My laptop is my primary 'puter.

Yanche, yep I'd like to know how much of a UPS would be needed to keep the water hot and circulating in the house to prvent freezing of the pipes.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

power draw on S-130

PostBy: pret On: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:23 am

I just want to mention that in speaking with Darren at AHS, he told me the draw on the S-130 - JUST the S-130 - with the thermocouple and the belt drive options is 6.5 amps per hour. I'm still investigating the type and size of circulator I need from the S-130 to air handler... but as far as the unit itself, Darren reported 6.5 amps.

later fellas. Pret
pret
 

PostBy: CoalBin On: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:00 am

Yanche

Nice setup !

When you get a chance - are those regular car batteries & how did you wire your dedicated circuits ? - I wound up using a sub panel.
CoalBin
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: DVC-500


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