keystoker hand fired

keystoker hand fired

PostBy: ron54 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:41 am

The keystoker hand fired makes a 70K btu stove. How does this stove compare to Harman & Hitzer?
ron54
 

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:10 am

You'll have to go look at them in person. There isn't a bad stove made by any of the current producers of coal appliances. The Keystoker radiant stoves are comparable to Harman, Hitzer,Baker, ETC etc.

A different make or model of stove is not going to change your heating
situation.

The problems for you are still going to be:
The need for an expensive chimney, getting it installed.
Building a coal bin or storing bagged coal and the expense
of getting coal delivered
Draging coal in and ash out through your living spaces and
ruining your carpeting

AND, most of all having your house heated way too hot 24/7 by an
appliance that can't be turned down far enough to be comfortable.
And if you try to turn it down too far, the fire will go out and you will
have the mess of emptying your firebox to start a fire again. Not a
pretty sight on a concrete floor, much less carpet.

GL
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: ron54 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:54 am

LsFarm wrote:And if you try to turn it down too far, the fire will go out and you will
have the mess of emptying your firebox to start a fire again. Not a
pretty sight on a concrete floor, much less carpet.

GL


So, do you honestly feel a leisureline stoker is my best bet, even though I would have to run a deep cycle battery & inverter only to get a 4 hour max w/o power?

Other than coal, everything else is expensive to burn, and I can't afford the electricity anymore.

My plumbing is in lower level where stove would go, plus I have drop ceiling with 24" removeable tiles. so why can't I run the hand fired low with 2 tiles open to upsatirs floor warming upsatirs floor & pipes?
ron54
 

Visit Hitzer Stoves

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:26 am

You can add batteries to ANY power supply to increase the duration of the power supply. Read this thread:

http://nepacrossroads.com/viewtopic.php?t=1977

A hand fired stove requires the draft from the chimney to pull air through a FULL BED OF COAL. There is no way to significantly reduce the quantity of coal being burnt. You can turn down the air to try to slow the burn rate, but you still have a LOT of coal burning, and making a lot of heat. Get the air setting wrong, close the door and go to work, and you can come back to a burnt down house, or a frozen house. A hand fired stove is a finicky animal 'till you have mastered it's personality, and this takes at least a season of burning to learn.

With a stoker, the feed mechanism feeds a small quantity or a large quantity of coal onto the grate, there is an electric fan forcing air through the small quantity of coal. The thermostat and on some the computer controls the feed rate to maintain the heat output.

Ron, the more I think about your house and situation, I think a Propane fired, space heater is the way to go. Even with a super-nice new stoker with the latest bells and whistles you still have to buy coal, get it delivered [or buy a truck and do it yourself] store the coal, carry the coal into your living space, and carry the ashes out. Just one 'OOPS' and your carpet is history.

Coal aquistion, storage, movement, pricing, and ash disposal take up weeks of my time, if not months.. Certainly MONTHS this year.

If I had a small well insulated house, I'd never consider alternative heat sources. They take way too much time and effort and have to become a HOBBY or they become a CHORE. That is why you see stoves for sale on Ebay and in the papers. The burning of coal is pretty much a Hobby with a warm outcome. Like cutting, stacking and burning wood: a Hobby with a warm outcome. I used to burn wood too!

I can get online and order and pay for a refill of my propane tank, even if I'm on the other end of the country.

GL
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: jpen1 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:04 pm

Why the pioneer? Ron you can get the econo 1 which will heat your house plus some form $500-600 less even with the coal-trol. It will use slightly less amps and you could buy a small propane backup unit with what you will save over putting up a chimney and buying the handfired unit. plus the distance to combustibles is much less and the insurance company will be much happier plus it will be much cleaner. I am not trying to rain on your parade but I don't think you will be happy with the end result with hand fired. Coal is like a thoroughbread horse it likes to run wide open not part way. You will be able to heat the whole season with the stoker not just the really cold part. I think we all want you to be able to save on your heating bill but as Greg has mentioned coal is a lot of work especially hand fired. I think we'll help and support you knowmatter what you do but I honestly feel like greg think about what the mess especially with the hanfired ash will do to your carpet. If you would go with the stoker the dealer would also be able put in your direct vent so that would solve your chimney issue as well.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

PostBy: ron54 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:10 pm

jpen1 wrote:Why the pioneer? Ron you can get the econo 1 which will heat your house plus some form $500-600 less even with the coal-trol. It will use slightly less amps and you could buy a small propane backup unit with what you will save over putting up a chimney and buying the handfired unit. plus the distance to combustibles is much less and the insurance company will be much happier plus it will be much cleaner. I am not trying to rain on your parade but I don't think you will be happy with the end result with hand fired. Coal is like a thoroughbread horse it likes to run wide open not part way. You will be able to heat the whole season with the stoker not just the really cold part. I think we all want you to be able to save on your heating bill but as Greg has mentioned coal is a lot of work especially hand fired. I think we'll help and support you knowmatter what you do but I honestly feel like greg think about what the mess especially with the hanfired ash will do to your carpet. If you would go with the stoker the dealer would also be able put in your direct vent so that would solve your chimney issue as well.


Per the dealer The econo isn't big enough for a sub zero day, as it would be maxed out. Also, leisureline requires a power vent, & cannot use direct vent. Together between the stove & power vent its 5 amps. Even with 2 deep cycle batteries & an inverter, the most I would get is 4 hours with a complete loss of electric. Its not uncommon to loose electric here for 8 hours or more several time in one winter.
ron54
 

PostBy: jpen1 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:15 pm

If you are heating only 1200 sqft with your insulation the econo1 will be able to roast you out of the house. I heated my house 1600sqft with a 48,000 btu input pellet stove for 5 yrs. and never had trouble maintaining the thermostat. The econo1 is 70,000 btu input which will heat 1800sgft or more with your insulation. Just to put things into perspective the harman mark II is rated at 72,000 btu's. So that being said you can buy a econ1 with the coaltrol and power vent and buy a generator for less that buying a hitzer and putting up class A chimney. Then you can run a few lights and keep the fridge cold as well . You can buy a generator big enough to run your fridge the stoker stove and a few lights for $600.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

PostBy: ron54 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:30 pm

jpen1 wrote:If you are heating only 1200 sqft with your insulation the econo1 will be able to roast you out of the house. I heated my house 1600sqft with a 48,000 btu input pellet stove for 5 yrs. and never had trouble maintaining the thermostat. The econo1 is 70,000 btu input which will heat 1800sgft or more with your insulation. Just to put things into perspective the harman mark II is rated at 72,000 btu's. So that being said you can buy a econ1 with the coaltrol and power vent and buy a generator for less that buying a hitzer and putting up class A chimney. Then you can run a few lights and keep the fridge cold as well . You can buy a generator big enough to run your fridge the stoker stove and a few lights for $600.


You may be right about the stove, but my father is an electrical contr, and for my 200amp home, I need no less than a 30kw generator which at cost is $5000, plus $1200 for taransfer switch.
ron54
 

PostBy: coal berner On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:54 pm

ron54 As jpen1 mentioned A generator would be your answer to all of your problems you can get A auto transfer switch and if you buy a propane one with a 100lb or 300lb tank you can get A whole house one to take care of everything with in 30 sec. of power outage there are pretty much maintenance free they start once a month on there own to check and keep everything running smooth then you can buy whatever type of Coal Appliance with a power vent you want http://www.generac.com take a look at them many sizes 5k up to 100k I know a dealer that will install for free if you buy one from him something to think about and look into
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:04 pm

Ron,

The generator would be only to power the essential items in your home, unless you want to be able to run the house as if the power was still on. I have a 5500 watt generator which will power my refrigerator, freezer, fan on the Harman, my sump pumps (most important if there is water in the cellar), and a few lights.

I agree that the stoker is the way to go if you want to burn coal. The hand-fed stoves are a lot more work to keep going. I have oil fired forced hot air heat which I leave set at 60 degrees on the coldest days which keeps the place from freezing over if we are not home and the stove burns down.

John
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: ron54 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:08 pm

coal berner wrote:ron54 As jpen1 mentioned A generator would be your answer to all of your problems you can get A auto transfer switch and if you buy a propane one with a 100lb or 300lb tank you can get A whole house one to take care of everything with in 30 sec. of power outage there are pretty much maintenance free they start once a month on there own to check and keep everything running smooth then you can buy whatever type of Coal Appliance with a power vent you want http://www.generac.com take a look at them many sizes 5k up to 100k I know a dealer that will install for free if you buy one from him something to think about and look into


So in reality a stoker is more expensive. My home requires a 30KW generator, 200 amp transfer switch, plus $4.51/gal propane, unless you use more than 300 gallons it drops to $2.35/gal. Cost on the generator & t-switch is $6200.

I'd have to be related to Bill Gates to afford stoker setup, whereas a hand fired is almost nothing even with the chimney in comparison
ron54
 

PostBy: ron54 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:12 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:Ron,

The generator would be only to power the essential items in your home, unless you want to be able to run the house as if the power was still on. I have a 5500 watt generator which will power my refrigerator, freezer, fan on the Harman, my sump pumps (most important if there is water in the cellar), and a few lights.
John


The generator you are refering to is portable. In order to get something that fires up on its own, you need propane. Those units are not cheap. Sure if I was home a portable is the way to go-as I could start it as needed. Ineed backup power when I'm out of house for 15 hours.
ron54
 

PostBy: jpen1 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:20 pm

If you have electric heat now what do you do when you don't have power for heat? I was refering to a 5kw portable generartor.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:25 pm

Ron,

Understood. When I was living here alone I faced the same problem. Power outages are frequent here as well, esp. during windy/stormy/icy weather. What type of heat do you have now?
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

PostBy: ron54 On: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:47 pm

jpen1 wrote:If you have electric heat now what do you do when you don't have power for heat? I was refering to a 5kw portable generartor.


Your right portable is the way to go, and for that matter I could get a cheap coleman poratable for $200 just to run the stoker. Unfortunetely, I am rarely home when I loose power.

What I do now is freeze when I get home, just cuddle in my down blanket. My hot water heater is 50 gallons, and even when we had an outage a few years back where it was 20 below for more than a day, I still took warm showers from the reserve in the tank.

I bought a kerosene heater a few years back that I never used as I'm afraid my kat would accidently know it over, plus I would only use it if I was home.
ron54
 

Visit Hitzer Stoves